Transcript for Piscataway Council meeting on December 17 2019
Note: Transcripts are generated by rev.ai and may not be fully accurate. Please listen to the recording (below) if you feel any text is inaccurate.
Speaker 1 00:00:06 Item five. Comments from administration and counsel regarding matters on the agenda. Item number six, regarding item number eight, such agenda items. Okay, item number seven, ordinance on a second. Reading. Reading. Fully funded $1,890,000 from a capital improvement fund for various sewer utility improvements. This is open to the public re adopting ordinance. This Speaker 0 00:00:35 Be resolved by the not of Council, council of Piscataway Township, New Jersey that an ordinance entitled Ordinance appropriating $1,890,000 300,000 of which is from the Capital Improvement Fund and $1,590,000 of which is from the 2019 budget. Capital outlay for various story utility improvements in and by the Township of Piscataway in the county of Middlesex, New Jersey was introduced on the 26th day of November, 2019 and it passed the first reading and was published in the fourth day of December, 2019. Now therefore be resolved that the officer of ordinance, having had a second reading on December 17th, 2019 be adopted passage and after passage be published together with the notice of the date of passage or approval in the initial newspaper. Be further resolved that this ordinance shall be sign number 19 dash 37, Speaker 1 00:01:22 Mr. Public. Any comments? Do I have a motion? Motion I second. Second, please state the vote. Speaker 0 00:01:30 Councilman Bullard. Yes. Councilwoman Cahill. Yes. Councilman Kahn. Yes. Councilman Lombardi. Yes. Councilwoman mcCal. Yes. Councilman Shaw? Yes. Council President Speaker 1 00:01:40 Lin? Yes I. Justice. Item number eight, consent agenda. Ency items have been consolidated to a consent agenda to be voted on together. The materials of these items have been distributed to the council in the advance of the meeting at this. At this time, are there any items that the council would like removed from present agenda to be discussed or voting on separately? Do I have a motion? Motion? Second. Second. So you please take the vote. Speaker 0 00:02:06 Councilman Buller. Yes. Councilwoman Cahill. Yes. Councilman Cahn. Yes. Councilman Lombardi. Yes. Councilwoman McCollum. Yes. Councilman Shaw? Yes. Council President er. Speaker 1 00:02:18 Yes. I. Justice Permission get pulled over 2019. Speaker 2 00:02:25 Thank you council president. This information has been set up through Discovery Police Department where a lot of law enforcement agencies throughout the state, whereas approximately one third of all fatal traffic crashes in the United States involved impaired drivers and where impaired driving crashes killed all over 10,500 people in the United States in 2018. And whereas impaired driving crashes are plus in the United States almost $44 billion a year. And whereas enforcement crackdown is planned to combat impaired driving, whereas a year this year in the holiday season is traditionally the time for social gathering, teaching, drink, alcohol. And whereas the state of New Jersey condition of highway safety traffic safety has asked all enforcement agencies throughout the state to participate drives over and get pulled over 2019, we're in the holiday crackdown and whereas project will involve increasing impaired driving enforcement through December 6th, 2019 to January 1st, 2020 I here attaching six New Jersey State of New Jersey Dubai declared support from the drive silver and 2019 year in holiday crack this year. So, and if I may also ask council president prior to the next agenda meeting, if we can have a al silence for the deceased police officer Jersey State Speaker 1 00:03:51 Item number. Speaker 2 00:03:55 Yes, Speaker 3 00:04:02 Families. Speaker 0 00:04:05 Thank you Council person. I'd like to also wish all of our residents and colleagues who are celebrating Hanukkah, I believe December 22nd, starts the Festival of Life late to wish them all a very wonderful holiday and a merry Christmas for those who are celebrating and happy quarter. Speaker 4 00:04:28 What's the last council meeting for the year? So I just wanna say 2019 was an interesting year that we accomplished some, some good things for the town and I'm looking forward to 2020. Sounds like big number. Speaker 0 00:04:43 It's Speaker 2 00:04:43 20 20 20. Speaker 3 00:04:46 Remember when? Speaker 4 00:04:47 Remember when 2000 seemed like it would never be in 2020 beginning. Speaker 5 00:04:59 I'd like to wish a happy holiday to everyone. Be safe. And I'd also like to say thank you to our clerk for everything she has done to us during the 2019 year. Thank you Melissa for everything you left. Speaker 0 00:05:15 I echo their comments of my colleagues. Just wanna wish everyone a happy holiday and happy this was the last meeting of the year. It's been a pleasure to work with you council again. It's been a pleasure to serve the residents, this staff. So thank you again for the opportunity Speaker 3 00:05:31 Your Speaker 2 00:05:31 Honor is and happy New Year. No, Speaker 1 00:05:38 I just like to wish everybody a happy holiday and a happy, healthy, safe New Year. Item number 11, open to the publicate, your name, your address, and know you have three minutes from street. Speaker 3 00:05:54 You've got nothing. Mr. Akens has nothing. Speaker 6 00:05:57 Find that good. Good evening. Good evening. I'm just looking for information here. So it's great that thank Councilman. Thank you Councilwoman Cahill. I wanna make sure that Councilman Cahn doesn't think that I'm mumbling for your comments about Hanukah. I'm a little surprised 'cause last week we talked about trying to get something besides the Christmas tree up and I went back and forth with Raj. I understand it's very busy and wasn't able to do the legal research, but I did have someone else do a little legal research and pretty clear that there's a statuses of Supreme Court of the United States ruling from 1989 that says if you put a menorah in next to a Christmas tree, neither of them are considered religious objects. So save you the time. I'm sure you're gonna, you know, do your, do your due diligence. But we wanted to make sure that you were aware that there was an fact, a US Supreme Court ruling. Speaker 6 00:07:01 And on top of that, there are multiple, multiple towns in New Jersey as well as around the United States that have Christmas tree and Menorah and Kanara and some that have Chinese lantern symbol, Chinese lantern lighting for the Chinese New Year. So if you'll indulge me, I'm just trying to locate the list. So as I was with actually the Mayor of Perth Amboy just a little while ago at the beach Donald Trump rally, one of 600 rallies with about a half a million people around the country. And the Mayor there invited all of us at Piscataway to come to the Perth Amboy manure lighting, which will take place on December 23rd in the municipal building. In addition to Perth Amboy, Berkeley Heights has a menorah lighting, Mero has a Menorah lighting. Allendale has built a Christmas tree and a Menorah Point Pleasant does not, but Asbury Park does have both a menorah and a Christmas tree. My understanding is that Highland Park has a canara Christmas tree and a menorah, let's see here. Oh, olive has a menorah and a Christmas tree. Morris Plains has a menorah and a Christmas tree. Let's see, oh, a friend of mine from Wayne, Cynthia, you know Wayne has a Christmas tree and a menorah and a public menorah lighting. Speaker 6 00:08:26 Oh here's the Kwanza Canara lighting from Bergen County. The whole county has a canara lighting for Kwanza. And I think that that is the list that I was able to collect last night. So I understand that your attorney wants to do a lot of legal research, but there's also just common sense kind. It starts on Sunday, you guys have a couple more days. It would really be respectful. It was great that we had a moment of silence for the police officer who gave his life the defense of the folks of Jersey City. There were also a few other Jewish folks who perished in had attack and other residents in Jersey City was a directly an anti-Semitic attack. It is part of a rising tide of antisemitism in the United States that is tied to and documented as a result of the presidency of Donald Trump. There's about 300% increase in antisemitic attacks against Jewish people in the United States. Speaker 6 00:09:20 This is one small thing that all of you could do to say that you stand in solidarity with Jewish people. It is totally within your right, absolutely within the law and completely and totally within your purview. And it would be both a symbol of goodwill to us of people around our state as well as the people who live in this community. We'd like to see our community be reflective of diversity of our population. So I'm asking you one more time for somebody on this council to be brave enough to make a motion to put up other religious and cultural objects along with our Christmas tree, which is lovely. Speaker 0 00:10:00 There's, Speaker 6 00:10:01 I know that your attorney thinks that it's not legal, but you really can't sit there and tell me that every other town in New Jersey that does this Speaker 7 00:10:07 To clarify, I didn't say it's not legal. I said I Speaker 6 00:10:10 Legal last week. Last week. Oh, Speaker 7 00:10:12 So, so last week we, I said I would get back to you because I wanted to do Speaker 6 00:10:16 And you didn't do that. So didn't Speaker 7 00:10:18 That, I don't want your words in my mouth saying that I, Speaker 6 00:10:20 I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm saying last week we discussed Mr. Speaker 0 00:10:23 Three minutes are, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Speaker 6 00:10:26 Okay. Well I guess that shows where you stand Speaker 0 00:10:33 Hide Speaker 6 00:10:33 Behind the wall Speaker 0 00:10:37 And BA one 13 Fountain Avenue. Sorry I just arrived. But apropo of this topic, I have a letter from Mindy Bolton Walsh who couldn't be here because she's sick. So she asked me to read it to you. And it reflects on the subject that states this raising that there's been a recent debate over the ality of the Hanukkah menorah and that she did research and discovered that a US Supreme Court ruling in 1989 states that menorah is not exclusively a religious symbol. And in fact when displayed with a Christmas tree, the two serve as holiday symbols and it is acceptable to exhibit a town hall. And in fact, the annual Medora Light United State House in Trent began in 1982 and continues to this day, we're sure as govern body elected to represent the town that you'll decide in favor of representing all winter festivals, including Hanukkah. And for those of you who are attorneys, the citation is county of Allegheny versus American Civil Union 4 9 2 US 5 7 3 19 89. And this was the opinion delivered by Justice Blackman and also upheld by Sandra Day O'Connor. So there is obviously sleep, legal, standing to do this. That's why other towns including Trenton and others do it. And the decision is actually very specific, the Supreme Court decision because it doesn't actually support displaying a crush relativity scene, which they found to be explicitly religious but upholds having a manure with a Christmas tree as holiday symbols. So if you want case law on that, there you go. No, Speaker 4 00:12:49 What I find interesting is that the American Civil Liberties Union was against, was litigating against the, displaying the Speaker 2 00:12:57 Murder case. Speaker 0 00:12:59 No, actually that's not correct. I read the case, it was, it's a little Speaker 2 00:13:02 More complicated Speaker 0 00:13:03 Then. Yeah, it was. It was against the crash and activity scene for the Menorah, which was a Speaker 2 00:13:29 1750. How are you Happy holidays season? Happy. Don't eat much, don't be sick. I need my, my neighbors requested a a thing for the dog. They had to walk in that dog and run more holders sense. Yeah. Oh, by the car we're by the park. Yeah. Well we have a lot of seniors and neighbors that have dogs now. Right. And some of 'em don't seem to pick it up. Some do. So if I catch it, you Speaker 0 00:14:12 Need to put the date. Okay. Speaker 2 00:14:13 I'll get you one. You can't leave it then. I don't want to put your REIT there. So I appreciate the pump swiftness of the guys getting the leaves outta their part. But on the other hand, we need to get the other guys back to cut the part. Okay. We've having this problem with the guys that's cutting it, not cutting it and not cutting what they're supposed to. I think this is my third ask. We get the original, which is Green State. Speaker 3 00:14:52 Oh, Speaker 8 00:14:53 I have to ask for my neighbor. Did they ever take care of his tree? Speaker 9 00:14:56 Yes. They actually went out there on Wednesday. They looked at it, they did some trimming of it and they scheduled it to be removed. Speaker 3 00:15:05 We do have frame. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Gross. Speaker 8 00:15:21 I'm sorry, I apologize. My name is Evelyn Howard, one 13 Fountain Avenue. I apologize again for coming late. Good evening. Good evening. Happy holidays to all of you. And I'm not sure, I didn't have a chance to look over the, the, the public the agenda rather of the, of the meeting. So I may have missed something that was very important. I did wanna ask some questions, however, though of the Mayor and he also of the town Administrator, but all of you, one that has to do with the energy aggregation program. First of all, I'd like to know something more about the timetable of the implementation of that and then secondly, what other towns you're contacting to work with Piscataway to get a lower brief. And then third, also whether or not the timetable can be sped up in some way. That would be, first of all to reach the a hundred percent at a, at a quicker rate and then also to open at a lower rate or a higher rate. I guess it would be whether or not those things can be done in whether they're part of your negotiations with the other town and with the aggregation provider where that might be. Speaker 9 00:16:30 Okay. So the timetable is, I think have explained we're in the process of getting approval from the VPU of the, of the specs and we anticipate going to bid in March. Okay. We would not be prudent to go to bid earlier than March. 'cause you're still in wintertime weather. And the prices tend for electricity tends to be higher in the, in the summer and in the middle of winter than they are even the spring or fall. Okay. We're currently working with Woodbridge and Highland Park through interested in joining us. Speaker 8 00:17:02 What's your estimate right now? Or do you think they are Speaker 9 00:17:05 Favorable? Both mayors are talking to our about it. And the last question was the percentages. We will have an option for 50% and a hundred percent in there, but we can't raise the minimum because we have to do exactly as the referendum statement. Speaker 8 00:17:26 Okay. So can I raise the minimum? We start at a higher Speaker 9 00:17:29 28% or whatever referendum that we are are starting, but we will have a 50% at a hundred percent option in there. Speaker 3 00:17:38 Great. Speaker 8 00:17:39 Okay. Could, can you, and can you spell it out? That depends again on your negotiations. Is that how that take Speaker 9 00:17:44 No, no, that's, that's what we'll put in the bid spec. Speaker 8 00:17:47 Okay, fine. Speaker 9 00:17:48 So we'll bid it with 28%, 50% and a hundred percent. So then we'll get three prices and it'll be up to the people to decide which one they want to choose. Speaker 3 00:17:58 Hmm. Okay. Well I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sure if I quite follow that, but anyway, it's quite all right. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Speaker 4 00:18:08 Just to clarify, people will, I, I believe Al now buys a hundred percent or close to a hundred percent electric. I Speaker 3 00:18:16 Do a hundred percent yes sir. Speaker 4 00:18:17 In renewables. 'cause he elects to do so, but he doesn't get the benefit of an aggregate right price. What we're attempting to do is to create an option, kinda like the public option, if you remember that phrase that was popular, right. Trying to create an option to allow people like you Al and others to be able to purchase at a hundred percent or 50% for less than you are now paying. So there'll be different levels of everybody automatically will have to participate at, at the rate that's in the ordinance unless they opt out, which they're allowed to do. Or they can choose a, a higher renewable rate and pay, probably pay more money. So we're trying to create those kind of choices for people. Does that clarify? I hope Speaker 3 00:19:03 A little bit. Well in part, but I'll ask you later some questions next time. Little bit. Speaker 8 00:19:11 Tony Wild 2250 Plainfield Avenue North. I'm just wanted to say, first of all, I'm Jewish by heritage, not by nationality. I'm an American. I think all American Jews are the nation of Israel. I mean the ridiculousness of our president calling Jews Jew being Jewish. Nationality is an absurdity added Speaker 4 00:19:40 To the list though. Speaker 8 00:19:41 Yes, but it, it, I find it really offensive. I'm non-religious. I mean I'm an atheist, but I am by heritage Jewish and I'm very proud of that. And I really do think given the increase in antisemitism and just hate across the country that's been unleashed, I really feel the Town Council could do everybody a favor and embrace the other communities in a holiday celebration. I see no reason we shouldn't do that. Thinking you. Speaker 3 00:20:18 Thank you. Have a motion. Motion. You have a second, second. Second in favor adjourned Speaker 1 00:20:35 For the agenda meeting order for January 3rd. The reorganization meeting. Adam, notice of this meeting has been provided chapter and the agenda by a copy of the notice building Municipal court. Municipal filing. Copy The clerk certification Clerk entered Speaker 3 00:21:19 Councilman. Bullard. Yes. Councilman. Here. Councilman Cahn. Here. Councilman. Here. Councilman McCollum. Here. Councilman Shaw. Here. Council president all Speaker 1 00:21:30 Here before do the flag. I'd like to have a moment. Ms. Hol for police officer pledge, Speaker 3 00:21:57 The United States of America and the Republic one Nation Justice for all Speaker 1 00:22:13 Meeting. We have domination for council president and council, vice president and he comes. Questions on that? We have Mayor appointments. Any comments? Question on the Mayor appointments? Objection. General resolutions. Any comments or questions on those? We have a resolution of authorizing electronic tax sale. Any comments or questions? Resolution of authorizing award of contract under ES CMJ 1920 dash 10 2020. Baseball and softball field two. Field maintenance JCW Incorporated DBA natural Green Lawn care not to exceed $36,590. Any comments, questions? Award of contract by the D-S-C-N-J 1940 dash 10. King River Road, island Landscaping Improvements. JCW Incorporated EPA Natural Green Lawn Care not to exceed $38,825. Any comments or questions? And then we have the appointment of council members to the committees. Any comments? Question on that. Announce comments of officials? Speaker 3 00:23:36 None at this time. Thank you. Well, I wish everyone happy New Year as everyone else did. So a very happy and healthy new year Speaker 0 00:23:44 And in 2020 that hopefully replaces Speaker 3 00:23:47 This president. Thank you. Please. I, I can't say that'd be better. Speaker 9 00:23:57 Hold on. Speaker 3 00:24:00 Not at this time. Thank you Jeff. Speaker 0 00:24:04 I see Mr. While clapping out there and I just wanna to comment on something that he said earlier, that there's a lot of hatred that we've seen in 2019 and I'm hoping, I I agree with you that in 2020 we see something different. So I have hope and I have faith. I'm hoping that'll Speaker 3 00:24:19 Be nice. Speaker 9 00:24:26 I have no problem with you. Number six, open to the public, please state your name and address and know you which Speaker 3 00:24:36 Curtis you want. Mine Speaker 0 00:24:43 And Ashton went through Teams Fountain Avenue. Again, how I agreed with everyone who agrees that we should have a new present by the end of the year. And, and also not a climate of hate, but one of actually of inclusion and of welcoming and of signaling our solidarity with each other. I hope that happens more and more here as well as across the country. I just have question, looking over this agenda, I did not see any appointments to the environmental commission listed as the consent agenda. Is that excluded from this agenda? Speaker 9 00:25:30 No, we're still, we're still working on the agenda. It's, it's on January 3rd, so we're still getting item's on, this is the last meeting of the year. We still have Speaker 0 00:25:39 Two weeks. So that might happen January 3rd that the Environmental Advisory Commission might appear. Right. That would be nice. 'cause some of us would really like to see us having one. And then the other thing is I just went online to look for the schedule of meetings. The planning board has a new interest to me. I know you're thrilled and I'd like to know what, you know, what dates, I guess there's second Wednesdays and fourth Wednesdays are the general rule, but it's not very clear. Anyway, the 2020 meeting board meeting dates and the council dates are not up yet. So do you think that they'll be So Speaker 9 00:26:23 The council, the council just approve them tonight. So they'll walk tomorrow. Great. The planning board and the zoning were opposed as soon as the board's approved, but they're on our website and they're also in our quarterly mail that out. Speaker 0 00:26:37 Right. But you know, you, if they happen in January, there's some kind of pressing business around the new industrial site and things that, you know, i, I don't wanna miss. So we'll have the January meeting schedule up in a few days for Yeah, Speaker 9 00:26:51 Soon as, as soon as the, as soon as the board's approved, it will be bottom line and it will also be in the quarterly newsletter, which is due to go out near the end of the, of the month. Speaker 3 00:27:05 Okay. Speaker 0 00:27:05 Thank you very much. Happy New Year. Speaker 2 00:27:23 Curtis. I'm looking under the mayor's appointment. I don't see my name. Speaker 2 00:27:43 The issue I have, I have to swing back to the paper across the street from the park. We've having this issue time. It's gotta get done. Now I don't know who's going to dredge this Mayor, but I brought this attention to Frank and I think I put it, they had put on mark up, I think Frank saw where they building or they're going to do something this six months ago. But evidently they had to come to the Township to do something or work from something. They need to know, we need to know what's going on across the street. It's been too long. Heck in the dark. So I need to know what's going on. I'm, I'm, I'm at a loss Curtis. We need a loss. Speaker 3 00:28:33 Okay. Speaker 2 00:28:34 Okay. You find out by the next meeting well just talk to Mr. Dacey. I don't know what I mean. I believe Frank, you know Right. I believe I'm not, not, I don't want to put you in the spot. Right across the street from the apartment. You got ribbons state off council president. Thing I can think of is maybe the, the property owner of the ones where weapons is they, they probably have to file a DP for there in order to do certain mediation right there. The issue, I don't know, but I would assume they would've to come through the city to get to do what they're trying to do. Not necessarily. Oh, that's what I'm saying. I don't know. I'm asking if they go to the It doesn't come through our, okay, thank you. Speaker 6 00:29:34 Berger 2 33 Ellis Parkway. So Raj, it wasn't that you said that it was not legal, but that's really what you implied. And then there was a whole discussion about whether it was legal or not legal and you were gonna do some research. So we gave you a bunch of court cases and like I can give you 50 more examples, but Frank's weren't gonna gimme three minutes. So there's literally nothing preventing any of you from doing this Speaker 7 00:29:59 Except that I haven't read the court cases and you know, Speaker 6 00:30:03 So do you think that the council in all of the other towns that mean you're not actually elected to this, but I guess do you think the other towns that are, that are holding those ceremonies are out of order or somehow operating outside the wall? Well, Speaker 7 00:30:14 I mean I need to read the court case to see if it's clear and cut or if there's, Speaker 6 00:30:18 But I'm asking, I'm not asking whether or not you, the court cases, I'm sorry this is my three minutes. I'm asking whether or not people on the council I'm asking to Yes, no question, but no. Do you think that thes Yes, no question. Do you think that the other towns, counties, and government entities that are, that are displaying other holiday displays besides the Christmas tree are somehow being not compliant with the Speaker 7 00:30:39 Law? Ms. Berger, I'm, I'm here to protect this counsel and this Township. Okay, they're self-insured. They need to make sure that they have low risk. Okay, I do the review, I recommend to the counsel what is your plan? I can't tell you what other townships do in regards to their legal, legal analysis, et cetera. Second of all, imp you said the state Speaker 6 00:30:56 Of New Jersey doesn't have enough insurance. You said, I Speaker 7 00:30:58 Implied Speaker 6 00:30:58 That it hasn't, Speaker 7 00:30:59 It was not legal. I iation at all. Speaker 6 00:31:02 You guys always hide behind the law to say that you can't do that. Speaker 7 00:31:05 You're talking over to me, I'd let you speak and then I was responding. You started, I asked Speaker 6 00:31:10 A simple question, yes or no. Speaker 7 00:31:12 So Speaker 0 00:31:13 I can I just say something? I just think outta respect, right? So it communication goes both ways in order for people to get their point across, a question has to be asked and then we have to give each other the opportunity to speak. But we can't just go back and forth. It's pointless. And I don't think it gets us anywhere. So I what I would, I'm Speaker 6 00:31:30 Trying to understand, Speaker 0 00:31:31 Right, but I understand you ask them a question, give them an opportunity to, to answer because I don't think we're getting anywhere with this. I mean, and it's not, it's not good. Speaker 7 00:31:40 I'll review the case that you gave me and, and then I'll make a recommendation to counsel that that's my obligation to do. Speaker 6 00:31:46 And when is that going to happen? Speaker 7 00:31:49 Hopefully the next few days. But like I said, I'd been extremely busy. There are other obligations in the Township that they have a lot of year end business they need to complete. Well, you know, it'll get done. Speaker 6 00:32:00 Okay, well the holidays are almost over. Sorry, Speaker 4 00:32:03 Let, let me just say the reason that you may have red 50 cases is because the display of holiday or in, or religious symbols in at public, on public property is, is, I don't know why it is, it shouldn't be, but it's, it has become like many other things in this country, an extremely heavily litigated issue. My personal view is I, I could care less what we put up. I I, I'd rather put a thousand things up. However, I I may be, I may not be the majority in that. Let me just finish what I'm saying. If you were to sum up these cases in the Allegheny County cases, one of many, there's some New Jersey Supreme Court cases as well. What they tell you clearly is that these are all fact sensitive cases and where you put things and how you put things, that's how you determine whether or not in some situations a manure in the Christmas tree are secular. Speaker 4 00:32:56 In other cases they may be religious. So they're not a simple answer. And then you run into the question, not a question for me personally, but a question in the law. What about all the other holidays out there? There's a lot of Indian holidays, there's a lot of Muslim holidays, Jewish holidays as you and I well know, there's a thousand of 'em. It seems to be a holiday every week. What happens when we don't put up a, a suka something for Suka or we don't put up something for Al or something like that so that it is not, I, I'm all for inclusion, I'm all for celebrating everybody's holiday, but it, but legally, what are we going to do if we, we put up a, a menorah and a Christmas tree. I'm all for that. What are we gonna do when another religious group comes up to us and says, we want our symbol up there as well. Speaker 4 00:33:43 And it's, and now it's not December, but it's March. And are we gonna tell them? Well too bad because it wasn't in the seasons greeting concept. So to say it's a simple, I wish it was simple. It should be simple in this country that we can all put everything up there and all hold hands and celebrate together. Unfortunately, there's as much litigation on this issue as almost every other issue that you can imagine in our society. It, I don't, as a lawyer it's disappointing, but that's why Raj is saying that these cases all say you gotta see how it's being done and it's gotta be done so that you're not promoting religion in some inappropriate way. I think everybody's objective here is to be able to, to be as inclusive as possible. But I don't wanna get in a situation where two months from now somebody is saying to me, why are you not putting up something that celebrates my holiday? And I don't want to have to tell that person we can't do it, but we could do this person. So I wish there was a real simple answer that you're advocating, but the answer is, unfortunately the courts have made it more complicated than it should be. Okay, well Speaker 6 00:34:48 I I I'm sorry. Did somebody else have counsel on something they wanted to say? I don't wanna take away from your, it's, it's great to have a conversation. I, I guess what I'm saying is that lots of other places have done this and dealt with it, including the state of New Jersey, which seems like they would really have, you know, thoroughly vetted whether there could be a menorah at the State House, at the state house, at the governor's mansion and in the capital city. So I think sometimes when we are nervous about doing something for the first time, we come up with a whole bunch of reasons why it might not be okay. There are lots of hypothetical situations that could occur but maybe they won't. So coming up with a million reasons why we can't do something instead of trying to come up with some good ones about why we can, seems to be the modus opera here. And we experienced that when we tried to videotape. We experienced that when we talked about having residential requirements for preferences or requirements for municipalities. I'm not even gonna get into that tonight because I can see Frank's gonna tell me my three minutes are up. So, but, but there were a lot of other people speaking so I'm gonna ask for a little bit of Speaker 3 00:35:53 Don't worry about Speaker 6 00:35:54 Thanks. I appreciate it. The, the point is that if the council wants to do stuff, we should figure out a way to do it. And I'm glad to see the appointments and commissions 'cause some of these issues and discussions could happen in those committees. They could happen on those commissions. You could have discussion and debate. I had someone from Princeton ask if there was someone on this council that might be interested, if there's a way to get someone on the council that might be interested in sponsoring a resolution. I said, you should call 'em all. 'cause the committees don't convene. So it's hard to know who's doing what on what topic. So it's, there are lots of people, not just me, who have lots of ideas for ways that our, our, our community can take those kinds of activities and and engage in them. And if you are interested in having a thousand, thousand different celebratory events, go for it. I don't think anybody, I don't think anybody here is certainly gonna close it and we would certainly support you doing that. So I look forward to Raja's report and I hope that you'll do something in time to celebrate both Hanukah and Kwanza and that we don't have to be back here next year having the same conversation. Have a good holiday. Speaker 8 00:37:04 2250 Plainfield Avenue North. Just quickly calling something a Christmas tree seems like a religious not thing. I don't, I'm all for Christmas trees. Speaker 2 00:37:16 Supreme Speaker 3 00:37:17 Court says it's not surprisingly Speaker 10 00:37:19 And they say the same thing about him anymore, Speaker 8 00:37:20 But that's mass. I don't know. But he doesn't believe it seems like a Christmas tree. It seems religious to me. So, you know, again, not a war on Christmas. I love celebrating. I've celebrated way more Christmases than I have Hanukkah's, but, but just I, you know, seems like this is something we should be able to work out. Thanks very much. Sure. Speaker 3 00:37:43 Thank you Public motion Speaker 2 00:37:52 Council president. I just wanna remind everybody Speaker 3 00:37:56 That Speaker 2 00:37:57 We're in a very good situation. We're a money magazine town. We're not, you know, we're not like every other community in the state. You know what, I don't necessarily follow the lead on other communities 'cause I don't know what their particulars are is that we always do up on stay as do the right thing for all residents in town. Speaker 10 00:38:15 Is that part of the agenda? 'cause he does that at the end of every meeting. I think make your agenda out of order. So you probably wanna check that.