Transcript for Piscataway Ems meeting on February 28 2022


Note: Transcripts are generated by rev.ai and may not be fully accurate. Please listen to the recording (below) if you feel any text is inaccurate.

Speaker 0     00:00:04    Recording in progress.  
Speaker 2     00:00:12    Okay. I'll just give everyone a minute to join.  
Speaker 1     00:00:23    Yeah.  
Speaker 2     00:00:25    Okay. My name is detective Jim Perry. I'm going to call this me to order. This is the February 28th, 2022 EMS advisory council meeting. Time is now 3:31 PM. Adequate notice of this meeting has been provided as required under chapter 2:31 PM, 1975. Specifying the time date, location login, or dial in information. And to the extent known the agenda by posting a copy of the notice on the municipal building municipal court and to municipal library, bulletin boards, municipal website, providing a copy to the official newspapers of the township. And by filing a copy in the office of the township clerk, it in coordinates with the certification by the clerk, which will be entered in the minutes.  
Speaker 2     00:01:13    The township continues to use a remote meeting format in an effort to mitigate the chances of exposure to COVID-19 as a part of the townships ongoing effort to slow the rate of transmission and avoid overwhelming our treatment centers in order to make sure I clear record of this meeting can be made and that all parties can be heard in an organized fashion. All members of the public will be muted during this meeting. If a member of the public wishes to speak during any public comment portion, please raise your hand. This can be done either through zoom app or by pressing star nine on your phone. I will unmute members of the public individually. If they have their hand raised, when it is your turn to speak, you will get a prompt or request to unmute. Please click on the prompt or press star six on your phone to unmute bond being on mute.  
Speaker 2     00:02:02    You should begin to ask any and all questions you may have. You will have three minutes to speak at the conclusion of which you'll be muted again. And the advisory council, the advisory committee or administration will respond as necessary. Each member of the public shall have one opportunity to speak during each public portion. As the technology does not allow us to know if there are multiple colors on an individual align, we ask that if you wish to speak that you dial in on a separate line so we can recognize you as a separate individual. Individuals may also submit written comments to the EMS coordinator up to 48 hours prior to the meeting to be read by the EMS coordinator. During the public comment portion of the meeting said, comments shall be limited to three minutes of reading. Thank you in advance for your patience. As we continue to move the township forward during this health emergency and everyone, please join me in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God, indivisible with Liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Okay. Is everyone from the adviser council joined here? I'm going to do a roll call. Mr. Dacey. Mr. Dacey is present chief Mosher resin, Councilman. Come see you. Councilwoman Lombardi. Kayla Green present  
Speaker 2     00:03:55    John Scarpa. Patricia Farmer present. Evan. She got, I just saw him Dan clear banner and Ozzie Guzman. I see him. All right. We do have quorum. I did send the meeting minutes from the January 31st meeting out prior to this meeting. Is there a motion on the floor to dispense with the reading of the minutes and approve the minutes? Okay. Is there a second? I'll second. It okay. All in favor. Say aye. All opposed. Nay. The ayes have it. The meeting minutes have been approved. Now we'll move on to the unfinished business. Is there any unfinished business  
Speaker 3     00:05:09    If I could speak?  
Speaker 3     00:05:12    So it's to my understanding that this is a council that offers recommendations. It was also that the concern could be brought forward from this council to the Piscataway Township council meeting. The township council met on February 15th. I didn't see any mention to what the recommendations were for that counts township council meeting. It was approved in the minutes that state Kayla Green made a motion to recommend Piscataway town council that dispatched on the closest available BLS unit to medical emergencies, regardless of affiliation, which was seconded by Patricia Farmer and the motion passed unanimously. I know that the next meeting is March 2nd. So I would, again like to make the motion that the concern of closest available unit be brought to the table at that meeting.  
Speaker 2     00:05:59    I can address your concern that the previous meeting minutes were just approved. So as soon as this meeting is concluded, I will send the January meeting minutes to the council town council. Okay. All right. I appreciate it. Is there any other unfinished business?  
Speaker 4     00:06:20    I do not have any at this time, but I did receive a message from one of our providers. They would like to be let into the meeting. I am not sure what to do. Exactly.  
Speaker 2     00:06:30    Yeah. There's no one in the waiting room, but as they come in, I will be admitting them. Okay, thank you. Sure. Is there any other unfinished business?  
Speaker 5     00:06:39    I did have a question just to follow up on some of the things that were discussed at the last meeting to see what the result was. Okay.  
Speaker 2     00:06:47    Okay, good. I can't see you on the screen.  
Speaker 5     00:06:50    It is. I'm sorry. Yes. Patricia Farmer. One of the things we discussed was collection notices that would be given either a point of service or distributed to township residents. So they would understand the procedure and who to contact, where they to receive service and get a bill. I just wanted to know, is, has that been done? Has that been sent out?  
Speaker 6     00:07:11    Yeah, I can comment on that. That'd be coming out in the quarterly newsletter. It's that print right now. So it should be out shortly.  
Speaker 2     00:07:23    Any other unfinished business? I'm sorry. Go ahead. Ms. Farmer.  
Speaker 5     00:07:25    I had one where we had discussed the possibility of having the same medical director to coordinate services from JFK. It was Dr. Feldman, I believe. And I just wanted to know if there was any progress on that or if that's still something that we're looking into.  
Speaker 6     00:07:42    Mark, do you want to comment on it?  
Speaker 7     00:07:46    No problem. At this point, I did have the conversation with our medical director, Dr. Feldman, he recently signed on to be the paramedic program director for union county colleges, paramedic training program. There's actually a fair amount going on with the state in regard to union county as well. So he does not feel that he has the capacity to take on anybody additional at this time, he's open to revisiting that as a possibility moving forward. But as of right now, having just signed on as the medical director in January, his plate is pretty full  
Speaker 2     00:08:20    And the other unfinished business,  
Speaker 3     00:08:23    I have one more thing north in for this past month, we're dispatched eight times. So they're dispatched eight times six out of the eight calls were mutual aid into Edison. One call was canceled on scene two calls prior to responding 144 hours by patient contact. We're looking for clarification on logical because after an operations meeting on February, it was that north stone is longer fourth through unit, but instead JFK will make the decision to use the best available unit or most logical unit. But JFK will be prioritized since they are the contracted EMS service for Piscataway. So the clarification on logical, I just feel like it's not quantifiable with metrics. Is it a response time? Cause we're in building, is it equipment? It's not our equipment we have to EMT is always on the truck. So what is what isn't logical is my question to the council about closest available unit at this time,  
Speaker 6     00:09:31    I guess I'll come out on that first it's it has to do with, with the people that are on supervisors at JFK's dispatch. And I think the most logical is, as I said, when we spoke about this at last meeting, by positioning of JFK's resources, and if one of those resources is transporting to the hospital and you know, the, the other two squads are on the north side of town and, and further down on the south side of town, that then a call that comes in from halfway, you know, center line of the town up towards north Stanton's district. Then north Selton would be dispatch. We also have to keep in mind that there, there is a contract and I've spoken to mark about this, that w you know, we need to try and keep everyone happy in this situation.  
Speaker 4     00:10:32    I'll add this the same as, as I did in that operational meeting, that contract specifically states that there are, shall be three units provided by HMH. It doesn't stay what needs to stay on the side of those ambulances. And there is no subcontracting clause. Again, Mr. Boger has stated multiple times over that JFK is more than willing to work with us the same as they do in the question, Sayreville, Plainfield and Edison would their volunteers. They do have on locators. That is something that we could put in there. And it was really a chief. It was, it was really just a disappointed to hear you say, in that meeting, that you're, you're not going to dispatch the closest available ambulance, simply because you're, don't want to deal with tiffs that might happen where people argue about who was closer. So I, I'm not sure,  
Speaker 8     00:11:26    Sorry, sorry. I didn't want to cut you off. Go ahead and finish it off.  
Speaker 4     00:11:30    No, that, that, that, that was, that was really about it. I, I do think there was some room for improvement. I do think we can utilize resources better, and I'm not really sure. I understand that as logical, when JFK is fully capable and has proven and said, they're willing to dispatch the closest available unit that could be pinged on their screen.  
Speaker 8     00:11:51    Sorry, stubble. This is Raj challenge project. First of all, there, the township is restricted. So there's public building and contract laws. You know, they made a bid based on the fact that they would be the dispatched unit. And regardless of the fact that they haven't so units that that's part of the coverage of providing, but they're actually providing, you know, were obligated to actually dispatch them as part of the contract. Now I know where we were walking in communication with them. I don't think there has been an I'm just stepping in from Mike Baker today. But from my understanding, I don't think there has been a, a formal communication from them that, that they're willing to waive that term of the contract and the bidding specs to, to do this yet. So, you know, we may have had conversations with them, but you know, I'm not sure yet. So, I mean, if you have someone that specifically said it, yeah. Happy to, if you could provide their name and then  
Speaker 4     00:12:59    Absolutely. We can send you a link to the last meeting.  
Speaker 3     00:13:04    So Wilbur had mentioned last time that there was projected to be 165 calls per se. And then he stated that there were more like 600 calls. You know, we said, Hey, when's the time that's most helpful to be there? You know, I know that this works in other towns where, you know, they were built into the cab, they're able to respond its closest available unit. They also have strains, right? Plainfield doesn't even have an ambulance right now. So JFK gets pulled in other things too. And that may be allowing for flexibility within that contract, which says that it can happen, right? Amendments can happen that if JFK says, okay, we're willing to have them come and help us right now. There's a national shortage. I'm seeing prehospital in the hospital, right? I'm an ER and ICU nurse, right? Time's getting trucks, they're getting patients to the hospital. It's affecting everybody, not just in New Jersey and nationwide, we're saying here, we're here. We're able to help you. What do you want us to do? Obviously they're getting their projected calls. And then some what's the line drawn that we can't help. And we're saying we're here to be public servants. So let us do what we can do. Cause we're, we're in the building here.  
Speaker 8     00:14:18    I understand that. And I think, and you know, I think north Shelton has been already included back into the dispatch protocol. You know, again, I'm just covering for my baker. So I don't have full knowledge. But from what I understand is that yeah, we're willing to, you know, where we don't have full say because there is a contract there's bid specs, there is a, we can't just automatically determine ho what JFK will will not do regardless. You know, you know, we have, you know, we have us in north Shelton has been back in the dispatch protocol, but there is, there is enough coverage. I don't think I've heard or been provided with any information that indicates that there has ever been enough coverage. And there's been an adequate response time so far. So,  
Speaker 3     00:15:07    So we have 144 hours where we only made patient contact four times, you know, like we're trying to do more. Yeah. We're being dispatched, but we're going into Edison. I mean the majority of that was an Edison and obviously I'm not going to pull any of that until April cause it's soon, you know, but if Edison volunteers are coming in a Piscataway to take calls and we're not able to take calls and Piscataway, and we're going to Edison, you know, how is that helping the residents of Piscataway as somebody who lives in Piscataway? And I, you know, I paid taxes and I believe in this organization and what volunteers can do, you know, Ken JFK then outline what they want from us and kind of do that together.  
Speaker 4     00:15:49    You guys are texts funded, correct? Kayla by the district  
Speaker 3     00:15:53    For district for you.  
Speaker 4     00:15:55    So you guys are going as, as a taxable entity into a different municipality, essentially.  
Speaker 3     00:16:01    Correct. Huh?  
Speaker 6     00:16:06    I, I know what you're getting at Evan as a, as a, as a mutual aid type situation, there was never a problem with that. The problem became began when north Stalin wanted to basically contract nights with south Plainfield BMS, which, which the township would not be in favor of. And in fact, put a stop to that. So before I forget, just let me touch base Evan, anything that goes to a township attorney, I think as you've been instructed has to go through that EMS website, EMS email address, don't email the contract attorney directly. Okay.  
Speaker 4     00:16:50    Okay. I would ask the same if the township attorney has anything that they would like to send towards us, please do not approach an officer of the court and ask for it to be sent to me through a tertiary pipeline as well.  
Speaker 6     00:17:04    I don't know what you mean by that. What does  
Speaker 2     00:17:06    That mean?  
Speaker 4     00:17:07    It's the same thing. You know, the, oh, sorry. My apologies  
Speaker 2     00:17:14    For a second. This is still unfinished business. I want to keep the meeting organized and moving along.  
Speaker 4     00:17:23    I was not actually a Mr. Moser. I was not re talking about south Plainfield. I'm not actually exactly sure what you're talking about there. I was referring to a document that came from the public safety director and the, the mayor himself back in 2010 that says all, all municipal assets, at least for fire should be prioritized before you go out of town. So I was really just running with the mayor's words. Okay.  
Speaker 2     00:17:46    Okay. Is there any other unfinished business? I don't see any, any hands here, a new business, the meeting is now open to new businesses or any new business.  
Speaker 4     00:18:00    Yes. I would like to about some of these things that happened in this operational meeting, some of it was touched on separately. I had not attended to bring it up during, you know, unfinished business. I believe it does go here. We were told by Mr. Baker that the river road rescue squad would not be utilized by the township for at least months to come. I believe as Mr Moser said at least months to come, we were told multiple times that we have to get our act together or, and, or clean up our act. And I was just wondering if someone can clarify what that means.  
Speaker 6     00:18:36    I think since Mr. Baker said that and he is not here, I think we should hold that to allow him to answer that.  
Speaker 4     00:18:45    Okay. Well, Mr. Mosher, you had stated it won't happen for at least many months. So being that you did have input on that. Can you tell us what you're looking for?  
Speaker 3     00:18:55    Well, Evan, I think this ties into, I had a motion to bring up. So we would like to recommend and make a motion that Piscataway police township council and JFK HMH outline expectations and stipulations in order to begin to be able to respond and be acknowledged for closest available unit. You know, volunteers are just, it's part of a system. It's, we're not just one person. It's not one organization. Everyone here in this meeting is here to help Piscataway residents. But understanding that, you know, it's gonna one day affect us personally with our own family and friends that if something happens right outside of north Dalton's building, or, you know, one of the firefighters, somebody goes down like whoever's there closest. That's why I would want to help my family member, but I need to understand what the expectations are and what your stipulations are, if that could be outlined. And I'm recommending to have it in writing that we can then make these changes to uphold what your expectations are of us, because I don't fully understand what you need from us to make that happen. And anything that you need us to do, we're willing to do that.  
Speaker 4     00:20:02    Absolutely.  
Speaker 2     00:20:03    All right. So Mr. Green, you want to make a motion, the JFK and town council outlined expectations for them for the current rescue squads.  
Speaker 3     00:20:10    Yes. So what we need to do to be able to respond stipulations, what they need from us,  
Speaker 4     00:20:25    I do know that are out of service record was brought up multiple times. We've done our very best. Our out of service record was mentioned in a verified complaint that made it to superior court. It was mentioned at a council meeting by the mayor. It was mentioned by Mr. Mosier on Piscataway TV and in his letter to the editor for tap into those records have been Oprah. The township has been unable to provide any of those records to substantiate any of those claims. And this is not a shot at anyone else. You know, 2020 was a heck of a year for all of us, but overwhelmingly those out of service hours were actually the brunt of nor stolen, which is the entity that the townships choosing to work with at this time. But Ms. Green has spoken to that again, you know, COVID did happen.  
Speaker 4     00:21:11    It affected us all differently. And you know, we, we, when nobody knows that myself and Gina Patel that EMS captain with texts constantly to ensure that if one agency was out of service, at least the other one was in. So there would never be a lapse of service, which was never brought up. It was also stated that we were an unsuccessful bidder and therefore we cannot work with the township. However, in that PCTV piece, Mr. Beauvoir spoke to the fact that there was a large incident on 2 87, for which they needed additional ambulances. All these things do happen. And they stated that Robert Wood Johnson was their mutual aid partner. And we'd like to point out that Robert Wood Johnson itself is also an unsuccessful bidder. And we feel that this is a really unfair treatment. So if these two claims can't be substantiated, we'd really like to support with Ms. Green is stating and just know what needs to be outlined. Because so far we haven't heard anything that we can't meet or haven't met. We're kind of just still at a loss as to why this happened.  
Speaker 2     00:22:15    Okay. Any other discussion? We will work the outline for north stone.  
Speaker 4     00:22:22    So you're refusing to do anything for river road,  
Speaker 2     00:22:25    Mr. Goomer.  
Speaker 8     00:22:27    Yeah. I just wanted to Evan, I just want to correct some facts. I think you stated that nothing was provided and you'll ProQuest. I think, I mean, that was a while back. I briefly remember reviewing the documents and there was records provided, so I'm not sure. I just wanted to correct those facts for the record that you say that there was, you know, there was no records responsive to that request. So from what I remember, they, they were clearly,  
Speaker 4     00:22:52    That's not what I said. I didn't say there weren't records responsive. I said there weren't records to substantiate the claims we found over the timeframe. It's not opinion. So I mean, numbers. Yeah.  
Speaker 8     00:23:05    The records and the records provide the records, provide that fact. So,  
Speaker 2     00:23:11    Okay. So Ms. Green made, made a motion for JFK and the township council to Alan expectations of the rescue squad. Is there any other discussion on this?  
Speaker 4     00:23:24    Okay. My understanding is it includes both rescue squads,  
Speaker 2     00:23:29    Rescue squads. Go ahead, Mr. Scarborough,  
Speaker 9     00:23:32    My concern was  
Speaker 2     00:23:35    Great. I'm a rescue squats. Is there a second?  
Speaker 9     00:23:41    I don't know if I can vote.  
Speaker 4     00:23:45    I'll say,  
Speaker 2     00:23:47    Let me say, she goes to second. All in favor to make for JFK to township council make a rev recommendation to the township council suggest the JFK and themselves outline expectations of the rescue squads. Please say, aye, those opposed, nay, the ayes, have it. The motion passes or any other new business.  
Speaker 4     00:24:17    Yes, I was reading over the ordinance and I see that a nemesis report is required. I believe someone had actually requested the nemesis records for those that are not aware who are on the call, who might not be involved in that EMS. Nemesis is a national standard for EMS reporting. These standards were adopted by believes the department of health and the state of New Jersey to cover EMS dispatch centers. Piscataway has a primary public service answering point a piece app, and they hire EMD emergency medical dispatchers. And under the law would be required to report for all medical calls for which they intake and dispatch. It was stated in the open request that there are no records responsive because they don't fall under the statute and they no longer provide EMS dispatch or call intake services. So it was wondering Mr. Goomer or Mr. Mosher, can someone please explain that because I saw a job posting for our Piscataway dispatch and it says that you guys need them to be MDs for your EMS fire.  
Speaker 8     00:25:25    Yeah. Mr. Garcia, I'll reply to that one. I actually reviewed that EMS report and the reports were provided for November and December. So I'm not sure where you're saying that the no records were responsive in regard to January, February, there were no records or fonts. I could have sent you a blank Excel spreadsheet with blank cells, but there was no point. It was, it was a blank doctor. And the reason for that is that JFK is reporting as they are the dispatcher and the entity providing the services. I actually provided the reports themselves directly to the DOH. And so the township does not have those records in their possession does not mean they don't exist. Does not mean that they were not submitted to the DOH. It's an Oprah request is for two records and the township possession that we did not have.  
Speaker 4     00:26:14    Okay. I'm just reading what I found online. It says emergency medical services, dispatch center means any communication center which provides service and connection with the coordination of requests for emergency medical services, including, but not limited to call intake, call processing, emergency medical dispatch, call triage unit assignment, and dispatch and tracking of any emergency medical services provider or other first responder on. And I believe Mr. Boger in there, correct me if I'm wrong. And your initial for the RFP, you offered a one button call transfer and the township, I believe, turned that down. So Mr. Goomer, are you guys still providing call intake and call processing or has that since ceased as well? I, I honestly have no way of knowing.  
Speaker 8     00:27:03    I will look into it and let you know. I can't answer that question and we will check to confirm that we're doing the process and reporting appropriately to deal with.  
Speaker 4     00:27:13    Okay. I was more worried because a it'd be hard for detective parents to provide this. If it wasn't there. I was trying to make it easier on him. Mr. Mosher, as chief of the police department, which has a dispatch center, or are you still providing call intake and call processing?  
Speaker 6     00:27:28    Yes. The, the initial nine 11 calls still come into this filming.  
Speaker 4     00:27:33    Okay. And they're in their screen. They're correct?  
Speaker 6     00:27:36    Yes.  
Speaker 4     00:27:37    Okay. I honestly would have no way of knowing. Thank you.  
Speaker 6     00:27:41    Okay. Any other new business?  
Speaker 3     00:27:44    I have another one. So north Stockton, we'd like to make a motion to allow for dual dispatch of north stone EMS. Whenever north Stoughton fire is dispatched. North Stalin, EMS was created to support the fireside. It's my understanding that we're no longer able to respond with fire to calls. I'd like to make the recommendation emotion. The north stone EMS would be able to again, be dispatched simultaneously in the Greenlight to transport. If a situation arises, JFK Hackensack rating will still have their three units within the town to uphold the contract. But north Stellan EMS would be able to offer rehab and transport services. When north Salton fire is dispatched  
Speaker 6     00:28:20    And discussion  
Speaker 9     00:28:27    So cheap.  
Speaker 6     00:28:30    How does that, how does that hit? It's what we're doing right now right now, Norristown does not get dispatched with their fire. I don't think that was stopped from the township side of things. I don't know how it was, how it ended, or if there were ever was a full protocol for north Felton's EMS to be dispatched on every call. I don't know the answer to that.  
Speaker 9     00:29:01    Starting in September for old general alarms, it was north Salton fire and DMS. And now we haven't seen a fire and EMS dispatch since September. So once they stopped dispatching EMS, it was done in September. There hasn't been a BLS unit dispatch with our fire company since September 3rd. And the, the concern I would have. And you also being a former firefighter, if something's going on on scene and somebody goes down time is of the essence. I mean, granted, you know, the concerns of the contract  
Speaker 6     00:29:40    On the call. Yeah, man, just joined. Let me see if I can find him.  
Speaker 9     00:29:50    If I wouldn't even have a problem. If our BLS rolled out on the fire tones, I mean, whatever makes it easier, but I just don't want to get into a, into an argument or disagreement.  
Speaker 6     00:30:03    I don't think that would be the concern. I do have a concern about dispatching EMS on an, any call that we go to, you know, fire alarm activation. I know we can, we can make the argument that, you know, nothing is routine, but the less emergency vehicles we have screaming through the streets, the safer we all are. So I would just like to talk to Manny about that and, you know, sort of lay that out. But as long as mark doesn't have a problem with it, I don't see a problem with dispatching them to the, to the calls that, that we work out for north stone. I don't believe we ever made any change. So I'm not sure why they stopped. I don't remember talking to him. He changed. I don't remember that either. I, I don't know how that happened.  
Speaker 9     00:31:00    Yeah, chief, I'm just, I'm just talking about what, from what I see with the tones going in there, hasn't been a Nordstrom and rescue tone dropped until we started picking up calls again this month to just clarify any structure, fire or anything, it was pretty much, you know, kind of by the seat of your pants and, and granted knock on wood. We've been lucky, but we're, we're one call away from kind of getting caught and, you know, understanding, moving resources around town. But you know, we also don't want to Hackensack units.  
Speaker 6     00:31:31    I don't mark. You have a problem with that. No objection. Yeah. Let me talk to Manny. I'll get with nanny and we can iron that out.  
Speaker 9     00:31:41    So is that worth not going to the motion and leaving it to you and the chief to determine, okay.  
Speaker 6     00:31:47    Yeah, I don't, you know, we do have to keep in mind that these are recommendations. If you guys want it to put it on paper that we, that we spoke about it. I certainly don't have a problem with that, but you know, I'll work on it with Manny and we'll get that laid out. Thank you. I appreciate it.  
Speaker 9     00:32:02    The, the only concern I would have is going back to the beginning of the meeting, Mr. Parent, you had mentioned that we're detective parent. You mentioned that though recommendations can go to the town council until the minutes are approved. Now, in this case, we had a meeting a month later, so the minutes will get approved today. The recommendation about posters available resource will now present to the town council in March. We won't get a report out on it until April in a normal meeting schedule. That motion would have been made in January. The minutes wouldn't have been till April. We wouldn't have gotten a report out on that until June or July.  
Speaker 2     00:32:44    Yeah, I understand. So you want to make it quicker that once the motion's passed and the recommendations are made, they're presented to the town council.  
Speaker 9     00:32:54    Yeah. Mr. Goomer, as long as that's in the, as long as that's possible for us, otherwise, if there's motions out there we're gonna, we're definitely gonna have to meet that.  
Speaker 2     00:33:04    I guess I'll do this. If I send the minutes via email and I get responses that they're approved, I will forego waiting until the next meeting to send them if that's appropriate.  
Speaker 9     00:33:18    Are we, are we legally allowed to do that? That would be my concern.  
Speaker 6     00:33:23    I think I'm sorry, Raj.  
Speaker 8     00:33:27    Yeah, let me just, I mean, we do have to comply with OMA. Let me, let me figure out a process that we may be able to approve minutes prior to an additional meeting. I'm not sure we can. That being said, we may be able to, the problem is these are all emotions. We need to confirm them prior to sending them counsels. So we're not providing the council with, with inaccurate information. And that's why approval of the minutes was previously necessary. Let me think through, think through a method to speed this up.  
Speaker 9     00:34:06    Yeah, because my only concern would be that everything that this council puts together, there's going to be a six month lag before we get a response on anything. And I think that that just kind of gums up the wheels and doesn't allow us to move in a forward, positive direction. And I think that's the goal.  
Speaker 8     00:34:21    It makes sense. It makes sense. Let me think through the public, making second, seeing how we can do this to speed it up.  
Speaker 6     00:34:27    I think that what we're speaking about right now with the dispatch on, on north stone, EMS and fire, I don't think we need to, to motion that, you know, I, we, as soon as tomorrow morning, I'll speak with Manny and, and we can get that moving. If we're, if, you know, if, if the, if the red tape is standing in the way of progress, that that doesn't make much sense to me. So we have to keep in mind that these are recommendations to the town council. I can have conversations, you know, with the mayor and Mr. Dacey, and we can get these things done much quicker than, than minutes and meetings and, and approving minutes.  
Speaker 2     00:35:13    Evan, you had your hand raised.  
Speaker 4     00:35:16    Yes. I'm, I'm a little, little lost committee. Maybe someone can explain it. Lou just said the, the red tape doesn't need to stand in the, in the way of progress. And we just agree to more change. I'll see Mr. Bogan to agree to that. And especially those calls and there's contract contract,  
Speaker 10    00:35:45    We connect, it's hard to understand you you're breaking up.  
Speaker 4     00:35:51    Okay. Is this any better? Hello.  
Speaker 10    00:35:57    It might be better. Go ahead.  
Speaker 4     00:35:59    Okay. Just said, you know, our rotating, not getting the progress of things. I'm sorry if I it's more of a paraphrase, but you know, we just kind of verbally agreed to change the way things go a little bit in town with EMS and the dispatch thereof after, you know, starting this meeting off about 30 minutes ago, stating that we couldn't do that. So I'm kind of just add if someone can just explain why it's okay. In some instances, maybe I'm missing something. I'm sure there's things. I don't know a greatly appreciate it.  
Speaker 10    00:36:35    As I stated before, Evan, we've never had a conversation about not sending up the ambulances with the fire trucks. So that was never brought up between me and Tom or anybody else. So we're not sure why that happened and Tom was going to fix it. That's why there was no change to anything  
Speaker 8     00:36:54    And that's, and that's accurate. And this garden, you know, it seems like this isn't an action that the, the township was taking more. So just a, you know, a correction of an error or, or some, you know, something. So in this case, I would take the position that the township is not taking an action per se, just fixing whatever went wrong.  
Speaker 4     00:37:19    I mean, I have a letter here from the chief versus the, this is an exciting time as we now have three ambulances stationed within the township, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year to handle all EMS calls within the township, there will be some operational changes through you to be aware of a major scenes when you were in need of a BLS standby unit through dispatch, JFK will respond. And he goes on to say, JFK will not provide a rehab unit. So it would seem as though some thought went into this, because  
Speaker 8     00:37:51    That indicates that that seems to indicate that the river that a north Salton would still continue to provide rehab, which they were doing. So that's why I think Mr. Dacey and Mr. Mogi would go, can chief Mosier have a indicating that, you know, there was never an talk about preventing them from doing services. And I think that's why it's being corrected.  
Speaker 3     00:38:15    So we have versus transport or two separate services that we usually have two trucks where one truck is designated for rehab. So I, and I'm not being rude. It's just one truck. Literally we take care of the firefighters, we check their vitals, we, you know, provide water and we're monitoring them to make sure that they're okay. But if something happens, there's always a second ambulance that is dedicated for transport. So, you know, if we're getting dispatched for a seal alarm, you know, it's not providing rehab services. We go with the fire for the CEO alarm. But if there's a resident that's not feeling well, can we then transport or does JFK then have to be dispatched? So that's where I think like the confusion and misunderstanding happened. It sounds like you're saying that we can go with fire, which I'm all for. I w I would love that, but will there be red tape that if somebody does need to be transported, which is different than just rehab, can we still transport? Yes. Okay. Thank you.  
Speaker 4     00:39:17    That's contradictory to the letter that that's why I was in Cuba, because it said that you would have to call for a,  
Speaker 6     00:39:22    As I, as I remember, we tried to get north stone to respond, to, to rehab and get this off of the ground when we were first getting this off of the ground in September. And there was some resistance to that. So this is what we call moving forward and growing. I don't think we need to believe at this point any further.  
Speaker 4     00:39:43    So again, so is it rehab or transport? Because we just said that they get transported resident. This is, you see where we're changing things, where we're slowly moving in a direction where we can utilize these assets, but we're, we're, we're not saying it outright is what it feels like. So I just, to be honest, you know, like, I mean, there are lots of transport and this,  
Speaker 3     00:40:03    He said that we can transport them. He's saying he has no problem JFK saying, Hey, it's okay. We give you that, go ahead to do that. They just agreed to let us do that.  
Speaker 8     00:40:14    And then I think, I mean, I don't think you should fight the, the township when they're trying to work with everybody. And so let's say things, so you may have feel that there's contradictions. So be it, but I don't think we need a fight over something where the township is willing to work with north south island to get so,  
Speaker 4     00:40:39    And if you're agreeing that that north Elton is allowed transport in the town, and they're allowed to be used in the town for EMS purposes for transport purposes, as long as everyone's agreeing to that, because it's not what was said earlier than, than that. That's fantastic news. I'm not fighting it. I'm just looking for clarification. Cause there've been contradicted.  
Speaker 8     00:40:59    Yeah. I understand what steps done was on dispatch. And I understand now the chief of state, you know, clarified, what's going to happen with, with fire dispatch. And so I think there's no need to argue about what prior communication to where the township was working to, you know, willing to work with them. So I think we should just keep moving forward  
Speaker 4     00:41:21    Instead of fighting.  
Speaker 6     00:41:22    Well, let me just, let me just make sure this is crystal clear. This pertains to north south and fire company and Ms. Green, you made a motion. Do you want to rescind your motion for  
Speaker 2     00:41:32    Now? If you're satisfied? I am satisfied. So I'm going to rescind the motion. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Is there any other new business  
Speaker 4     00:41:43    I would like to, again, I would love like, again, ask why, why it is then that nor stolen can be utilized in multiple capacities and the river road rescue squad simply cannot. I think, and that, that's what I was gaining. And Mr. Goomer like, it's, it's really not a fight. I'm not here to fight. I'm not here to argue with anyone. I'm sorry. If it comes across that way, I'm trying to wrap my head around really what's going on here because it, it, it seems to be, we're treating, you know, two different entities differently. And it, you know, there was another letter of pen by, by the chief that says our river road rescue squad has no place at the table. So I I'm attempting to understand having gone through the records provided by the township, not seeing the out of service records that were mentioned, not seeing the missed calls that were mentioned and seeing that other unsuccessful bidders are indeed allowed to work in the town. I'm really just trying to understand what,  
Speaker 8     00:42:40    And I apologize, but, but what other unsuccessful bidders are allowed to work in town?  
Speaker 4     00:42:45    Robert would know that Robert would be around successful, correct?  
Speaker 8     00:42:51    They're on the dispatch protocol, but they're not, they're not on the contracts and that's, that's, that's Hackensack dispatch protocol and that's their decision. So,  
Speaker 4     00:43:02    And push the district then is what you're saying. So if JFK Hackensack chose to dispatch us, because it's their choice, they could utilize us as a mutual aid asset in town. Based on that, that reasoning. Correct.  
Speaker 8     00:43:15    I'd have to talk with Mike basically. He's, he's been one knowledgeable about the contracts and the bid specs. So I wouldn't want to make a statement.  
Speaker 2     00:43:27    I'm sorry, Mr. Goomer, this isn't new businesses to be all business that we talked about previously. Is there any, is there any new business,  
Speaker 4     00:43:39    You know what, I'll make a motion. I would like to motion that the river road rescue squad equals Northland rescue squad. The any decisions made with Northland and rescue squad also apply to deep river road rescue squad as legally applicable by law.  
Speaker 2     00:44:03    Mr. Negoti made a motion that any decision that is made as far as north Stellan also applied to river road. Is there any discussion  
Speaker 8     00:44:19    Mr. Goomer just as applicable to laws, good additional condition because there are also, and also whether I know there's the, as to the condition and there's going to be a written, I think, a written submission to the squads as to what they need to do to meet the standards. I think that should be an additional condition to this, to this resolution that anything applicable would have to meet those standards.  
Speaker 4     00:44:52    Yeah. I, I agree with that wholly. And I think by stating applicable to law, we would get a definitive answer as to, you know, what, what limitations there are to make sure that that whatever's done is applied to it really. That's all we're looking for. So  
Speaker 8     00:45:10    Yeah, again, these are all recommendations to the council. They're not actions, but definitely you can go ahead and do that resolution. And then, you know, we'll go forward to the council.  
Speaker 3     00:45:23    Can you outline, what can we go through with the first motion about what the expectations are? Because what river road has to offer is we have to offer, are all volunteers trying to serve Piscataway, but if these things are outlined and we both meet those standards, then we can say, please responding to calls they're in service more than what we're doing right now. You know what I can't say that we should have to be the exact same because we are two separate serving Piscataway. And if we get these outlines, then we know better how to internally.  
Speaker 8     00:46:02    Yeah. And, and you know, that's the concern is that they are two separate entity is operating differently. You guys don't go out to patients. They do. They've indicated in their bid split in their bid submission that they were moving towards a for-profit entity. You know, there you are two different organizations. And I don't know if we can treat you equally because of that on the way you proceed with that type of care and knowing. But I mean then, then again, I leave that to the chief and I also have to review and contract and I'll speak for this.  
Speaker 4     00:46:37    I'd like to clarify, Mr. Goomer my apologies. I didn't mean to speak over you. I like to clarify that the river rescue squad made no moves towards a, a for-profit entity. There are plenty of entities out there that do a fee for service. The river road rescue squad has never, and will never, at least as long as I'm here utilize a, a collections agency. That's just not what we do. There's also to raise tax or even request tax money from anyone. If everyone has to pay for insurance, that money there, there's no reason other reasons not to utilize it. And, and the feeling of this organization is why we do what we do, but we never sought to change the structure of our organization to be a for-profit. That is, so we just like to clarify that this green, I know we are a separate, but you know, we should be given the same opportunity is what I'm getting at. And obviously that, you know, if, if operationally things are a little bit differently, different, I'm sure we can hammer that out as those, those changes are made just the equalities, what we're looking for.  
Speaker 2     00:47:44    Okay. There's a motion on the floor, Mr. Goomer. Go ahead.  
Speaker 8     00:47:48    Yeah. I think in your actual bid response, I can pull it up just to clarify, so I don't want to confirm it, but I think he did provide for profit. I think the other difference between two organizations, I think you have paid employees volunteer service. So there are substantial differences that I'm not sure there should be a blanket. You blanket procedure, that everything that buys a river rough river, I mean, it should be applying to the road, but you know, I leave that up to the committee to make that recommendation.  
Speaker 4     00:48:23    Yes. We offer to paid employees in the future. Should we have one, but we didn't and we don't have any paid employees currently. So there's no one here, myself included.  
Speaker 2     00:48:37    Okay. Any other discussion on the motion or there's a motion on the floor to recommend to the town council, any decision that is made in regards to the north Dalton rescue squad also applies to river road rescue squad as applicable to law. Is there a second, Mr. Guzman, all in favor, say aye. All opposed the nos have it, or the motion failed. Any other new business?  
Speaker 4     00:49:22    I'm sorry for the record. Who voted? No  
Speaker 2     00:49:25    Roll call vote. Mr. Mr. Dacey. There's gonna be roll call, vote recommended count town council. And the decision is made in regards to north stone rescue squad. It also finds to river road rescue squad as applicable to law. How do you vote, sir? Chief Mosher? No north Stellan.  
Speaker 3     00:49:48    No, but we can revisit this later on. I think we need to get the expectations outlined first, but right now my answer is no,  
Speaker 2     00:49:55    This farmer  
Speaker 3     00:49:56    I'm going to say no for the same reasons as Ms. Green.  
Speaker 2     00:50:01    Mr.  
Speaker 4     00:50:02    I'm going to say yes.  
Speaker 2     00:50:04    And Mr. Guzman, yes. Or the nodes have for the eyes, have to the motion failed. Okay. Is there any other new business?  
Speaker 3     00:50:20    I just want to know when will the quarterly report become available from JFK HMH to us? If that's a thing I don't, like I said, I know that it's due for like the quarterly report and how do we go about getting like a copy of that?  
Speaker 7     00:50:39    Sure. So we submit a monthly report of all data and metrics over to a Piscataway PD per the contract. And the quarterly report will be the same. I believe the belief was we were going to get it onto a regular quarterly schedule. So we should have the wrap up of the last quarter of 2021 over relatively soon in the first quarter of 2022. We'll be that way at the conclusion of March. But all of that will be submitted as usual over to Piscataway PD  
Speaker 2     00:51:15    And the other new business. Okay. Any announcements I'll start. I have to, the annual report for the rescue squads is due prior to April 1st. So I'm going to send out an email in the next week or so outlining the requirement for the annual report. And also the next EMS advisory meeting date is April 25th at 3:30 PM. Any other announced announcements?  
Speaker 2     00:51:46    Okay. This is, this is now the time for public comment. If any member of the public wishes to speak, please raise your hand. This can be done either through the zoom app or by pressing star nine on your phone. I will unmute members of the public individually. If they have their hand raised, when is your turn to speak, you will get a prompt or request to unmute. Please click on the prompt or press star six on your phone to unmute yourself at that time. Please state your name and address and know that you have three minutes in which to make your comments, the EMS advisory committee or administration will respond to if necessary after you have completed any comments or questions.  
Speaker 12    00:52:38    Yeah. Hi, not Phillips Canterbury court Piscataway one. So I have a couple of, couple of things to go over. The first question is what is the status of finding a permanent EMS coordinator know, as, as you can understand, as being an EMT, wearing two hats in a same municipality, usually doesn't equal much success there. So I'm looking for the status of, of that. Also, where is the job posting listed? Cause I did not find out that Piscataway website, unless I'm looking in the wrong spot and to comment about all this back and forth with letters from Tom Mosher, to the departments, which I personally find to be disrespectful and unprofessional, and the way that he's treating singling out really river road rescue squad for no apparent reason when asked why they can't provide service, he pawns it off on to somebody else, even though he's made a statement about, you know, being several months with everything, circling in the news and the media about discrimination lately with chief Mosher, I'm just wondering, is this motivated by some sort of discriminatory mindset towards the chief of river road rescue squad who is Jewish? That is honestly where I feel it's headed right now and judging by his demeanor, his tone of voice and his overall facial expressions on zoom. The guy just seems like a total person that is unwilling to work with anybody. It just seems quite frankly like an ass. So I'm just wondering what the, what the comments on that are.  
Speaker 2     00:54:17    So I'm Mr to fill, I'm going to pause your timer too. If we can just keep the comments polite, I'm going to unmute you when you're ready and then restart your timer. Okay, sir.  
Speaker 12    00:54:28    Sure. I also believe that the township is confused between the difference between, can you guys hear me now,  
Speaker 2     00:54:40    Sir?  
Speaker 12    00:54:41    Okay. I believe that there's also some confusion with the township regarding fire rehab versus having an ambulance on scene of a, of a fire call. It is my understanding that N first, which is the fire reporting system that the fire departments use in the state of New Jersey, that when you filed this report, you are mandated to put the EMS agency that was on scene with you. I actually confirmed this with a fire chief of another town while on this pole. So there is a difference, you know, rehab is dedicated as north Stoughton said to the scene, that is a dedicated asset. Having an ambulance on scene for transport is something different. And I think that needs to be straightened out because JFK, if they're not providing an ambulance on a fire scene needs to start immediately as they would be in violation of N first and what the state mandates.  
Speaker 12    00:55:35    So I think it's only right that, you know, north Dalton can be dispatched to north Stoughton fire calls. Then why can't we road be dispatched to district two fireballs? I mean, you're talking about fire calls and to be quite Frank with you, no paid agency wants lots of staff, a truck on a fire scene because they'd rather be doing the transports and generating revenue. It's not, you know, a slight towards any paid department. It's just the facts of the facts. You know, if the trucks not transporting the trucks, not making money and that's where I will  
Speaker 2     00:56:06    At three minutes is up. Thank you for your comment, Mr. Phillips, is there any other public comment?  
Speaker 4     00:56:18    Okay. Detective parent, like a distance myself from that a little bit, it was comments made me feel a little and I do not share any of those sentiments,  
Speaker 2     00:56:28    Any other negative, any other public comment?  
Speaker 6     00:56:32    I'll just comment on the part about moving forward on an EMS coordinator. Detective parent will be attending the EMD and the 9 1 1 dispatch classes within the next, a short order. And then I will move to have him made the full coordinator.  
Speaker 2     00:56:58    Thank you, chief. Any other public common? I don't see any other hands raised. They please have a motion to adjourn the meeting all in favor. All opposed. I have 4:28 PM. Thank you guys.  
Speaker 6     00:57:13    Thank you everyone for coming.