Transcript for Piscataway Zoning meeting on November 9 2023

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Nov 9 2023 · Zoning

Meeting Sections

00:00:00 — Meeting Opening, Roll Call, and Pledge of Allegiance
00:00:51 — Agenda Adjustments and Postponements 23-ZB-90V
00:01:51 — Case 23-ZB-90V: Sheila Hobson — Adjourned 23-ZB-90V
00:02:14 — Case 23-ZB-99V: Marza Khalid Bag — Fence Variance 23-ZB-99V
00:08:28 — Case 23-ZB-98V: Diet Nai — Deck/Patio Variance 23-ZB-98V
00:11:52 — Resolutions — Memorialization of Prior Approvals
00:13:22 — Case 23-ZB-64/65V: VDYO USA Inc. — Hindu Temple Complex 23-ZB-64/65V
00:40:11 — Adoption of 2024 Zoning Board Calendar
00:41:33 — Adoption of October 26, 2023 Meeting Minutes
00:41:47 — Adjournment

Meeting Opening, Roll Call, and Pledge of Allegiance AI 00:00:00 – 00:00:51

Zoning Board meeting called to order with notice of adequate procedural compliance. Roll call: Mr. Weisman (present), Mr. Hika (absent), Mr. Mitterando (present), Mr. Riley (present), Chairman Cahill (present). Pledge of Allegiance recited.

Speaker 0I'll start the zoning board meeting then. Okay.

Speaker 1She, she can't keep talking.

Speaker 0I'm gonna start it now. Zoning Board of adjustment meeting will please come to order. Adequate notice this meeting was provided in the following ways. Notice published to the Coer News notice posted on the Bolton board in the municipal building notice made available to the Township clerk notice sent to the Curer News and the star ledger. Will the clerk please call the roll?

Speaker 1Mr. Weisman

Speaker 0Here.

Speaker 1Mr. Hika. Oh, he is not here. Sorry. Mr. Mitterando. Here. Mr. Riley.

Speaker 0Here.

Speaker 1Chairman Cahill.

Speaker 0Here. Will everyone please stand for the to the flag.

Speaker 3The Flag States America Stand. One Nation under God, indivisible. Liberty. Liberty

Agenda Adjustments and Postponements 23-ZB-90V AI 00:00:51 – 00:01:51

Six cases postponed to December 14, 2023: Hobson (Wade Street), Alan Cruz (Maple Avenue), OS Hard, Beverly, Ian the Party (Runyon Avenue), and Lnr Properties (Normandy Drive). All postponements required applicant or property owner notification.

Speaker 0And justice for all. Mr. Canis, do we have any changes to the agenda today?

Speaker 2We have many changes to the agenda today.

Speaker 0Please go slowly. Fred.

Speaker 2Matter of Hobson 2 6 0 2 Wade Street, that will be postponed to December 14th. The applicant must notice Alan Cruz Maple Avenue postponed until December 14th. The applicant must notice os hard not plead, postponed the December 14th, 2003 23. They must notice the towns as Beverly postponed until December 14th, 2023. No further notice, Ian, the party. 6 0 9 Runyon Avenue postponed until December 14th. They must notice the property owners on the property list Lnr properties 60 Normandy Drive postponed until December 14th. No further notice. Those are all the changes I have this evening.

Case 23-ZB-90V: Sheila Hobson — Adjourned 23-ZB-90V AI 00:01:51 – 00:02:08

Case for Sheila Hobson announced but immediately adjourned as previously listed in agenda postponements.

Speaker 0Okay, Laura, I'm gonna need you to babysit me through this one 'cause I did not get a chance to mark off like two or three of these. So I'll start with the first one, which is number 5 23 dash ZB dash 90 v. Sheila Hobson.

Speaker 2That's adjourned.

Speaker 0Oh, please. I'm so sorry, sir.

Speaker 2I think, I think number eight is our first hearing. Number eight.

Case 23-ZB-99V: Marza Khalid Bag — Fence Variance 23-ZB-99V AI 00:02:14 – 00:08:23

Applicant requested variance to install fence on corner lot (Highland and Deerfield Avenues); 35-foot front setback required, applicant proposed 6 feet. Engineer and planner recommended 15-foot setback as compromise; applicant agreed, with shed relocation required. Approved unanimously 4-0 (Weisman, Mitterando, Riley, Cahill).

Speaker 0Thank you so much. I did not download the update that you, Sandy Laura saw. My apologies. Number eight, which is 23 dash zb dash 99 v. Marza Khalid by

Speaker 2Is Marza Khalid bag present?

Speaker 4Yeah. I

Speaker 2I need to swear you in. Could you raise your right hand? You swear that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth.

Speaker 4Yes.

Speaker 2Your name and address please?

Speaker 4Beck 99 Highline Avenue, Pisca Avenue, New Jersey.

Speaker 2Thank you. Mr. Beg, could you explain to the board what you'd like to do here?

Speaker 4I'm applying for variance to put a fence and my property, my property is at the corner lot. It's Highland Avenue and Deerfield Avenue. And on the side, I, I was asking where I can put defense by leaving six feet of off the street.

Speaker 0Mr. Chairman, Mr. Hinterstein has a report I think Mr. Chadwick is gonna go over. Yeah. Mr. Chadwick, could you address some issues here, sir?

Speaker 5Yes. The report was prepared by Mr. Hinterstein. It's dated November 1st and there are a comment with the regards to the fence. The front setback is required to be 35 feet and a solid six foot high fence is not permitted in that location. He and I both recommend that the applicant be given some relief and move the fence 15 feet from the property line, which is less than half the setback. If you've had a chance to look at the street, it's all open in the front yard areas. And to have a fence out at the street level would be a, a significant change to that road, road landscape. So I recommended the applicant you'd have to move the fence back in additional nine feet. You're proposing six, we're suggesting 15. And in addition, I have a note on your plan that you've agreed to move the shed to conform with these setback requirements. Is that correct?

Speaker 0Is that correct, sir?

Speaker 4Yes. I'm, I'm agreeing to move my shed, but I was requesting if I can get instead of 15 off the street, if I can get 10 feet at least

Speaker 5We're recommending less than half the requirement. I think that's a significant compromise and I don't wanna adjust that.

Speaker 0It's not a bad deal, sir. Yeah. Compared to what you, compared to what it could, it could be applied. It's actually quite a good deal, a good compromise I should say. I think if you agree to it, we can move forward and, and probably approve this application, sir.

Speaker 4Yeah, I mean maybe, probably I'll react it the same thing. Is there any room to get at least, you know, to 10 feet instead of 15,

Speaker 5You started 35 feet and you move into your variance sign, you're getting a significant variance. 10 feet does not do it. I suggest I suggest you take the proposal from the Chairman.

Speaker 0The way the board's gonna lean on this one, sir, I think it's a good deal, good compromise. And I would take it if I were you, if not, we can put it to vote now and I don't, from the, my opinion, I don't think it'd be approved.

Speaker 4Okay. So what if if I don't take this now, what do I have to do sir?

Speaker 2If you don't take the offer from the board, the board will vote on your application and your current application proposes a six foot setback instead of a 35 foot setback. The board never gives that much relief. They will give some relief, but not that much.

Speaker 4Yeah, well even I thought, and I was actually going with 35 only, but later on, on my same street, I had seen two houses which had, you know, six foot of fence on the Deerfield Avenue, the same street where I live. So by seeing that, I thought, okay, I might have to, you know, apply for variance and that's where I put an application for variance.

Speaker 2We don't know if those fences were put up with approvals or with permits, but we don't know if they're legal.

Speaker 4I see. Alright. So yeah, then I'll, I'll agree with this. I'll go ahead with 15.

Speaker 0Okay. Thank you sir. Any other board members have any questions for this application or comments? Hearing none, I'm gonna open it to the public. Anyone on the public have any comments or questions about this application? Buckley?

Speaker 1No. One Chairman.

Speaker 0Okay. Gonna close the public portion and I will make a motion to approve this application with Mr. Chadwick's and Mr. Hinterstein recommendations. I a second. Thank you. Weisman, please call the roll.

Speaker 1Mr. Weissman?

Speaker 0Yes.

Speaker 1Mr. Mitterando? Yes. Mr. Ley? Yes. Chairman. Cahill?

Speaker 0Yes.

Speaker 2Your application as amended has been approved. We will memorialize it in a written document at our next meeting and we'll send that document to you. You'll need that for your permits.

Speaker 4Thank you so much.

Speaker 0Have a good night sir.

Speaker 2Thanks.

Speaker 0Okay. I'm, I'm walking through Muddy Waters here. Number nine?

Speaker 2Yes, number nine.

Case 23-ZB-98V: Diet Nai — Deck/Patio Variance 23-ZB-98V AI 00:08:28 – 00:11:13

Applicant requested variance to retain existing 18'×18' deck (6 inches off ground, functioning as patio). Engineer and planner recommended approval contingent on removal of railings, roof, and siding. Approved unanimously 4-0 (Weisman, Mitterando, Riley, Cahill).

Speaker 0Okay. Laura, read this to me 'cause I don't have the, after the zb, I don't have it.

Speaker 1Oh yeah 'cause you don't have the updated one.

Speaker 0Updated, right? I know. I forgot to download. I apologize.

Speaker 1Oh, you know,

Speaker 0I know, I know. You hate it When the Chairman does this. It's

Speaker 123 ZB 98 V Gire NAE

Speaker 2Is 23 ZB present. Okay, you're muted. I need to swear you in.

Speaker 8Yes, I'm here. I'm here.

Speaker 2Could you raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?

Speaker 8Yes, I

Speaker 2Do. Your name and address please.

Speaker 8Diet NAI 23 Red Bud Road.

Speaker 2Thank you. Could you explain to the board what you'd like to do here?

Speaker 8So I have a deck that my dad put in and I am requesting to keep the deck. It's 18 by 18 in size. I am removing the railing and the roof over it. And the deck is six feet off the ground.

Speaker 1Six inches.

Speaker 8I'm sorry, six inches. I'm sorry.

Speaker 0Mr. Chadwick, we would you please?

Speaker 5Yes, both Henry and I agree this is more like a patio than a a deck because it's almost at ground level moving all the other implements. So we basically think that could, you would prove it subject to removal of the railings, the roof, the siding, and leave it as a patio in, in the place where it now exists. Other than that, there's no other Chaill recommendation.

Speaker 0Okay. Thank you

Speaker 2Mr. Chadwick, can you address paragraph two with regard to the fence?

Speaker 8So that fence is not our fence, it's the owner behind us and he already moved his fence seven feet inside. So the fence does not exist anymore there.

Speaker 2Thank you.

Speaker 0Okay. Any other members of the board of any questions for this application? Any comments? No. Gonna open it to the public. Anyone from the public have any comments or questions for this application?

Speaker 1No. One Chairman.

Speaker 0Okay. Hearing now I'm gonna close the public portion and I'd make a motion to approve this application. May have a second. Yes. Steve? I second it please. Call roll.

Speaker 1Mr. Weisman?

Speaker 0Yes.

Speaker 1Mr. Mitterando? Yes. Mr. Riley? Yes. And Chairman Cahill?

Speaker 0Yes.

Speaker 2Your application's been approved. We'll memorialize it in a written document and send that document to you.

Speaker 8Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 0Hi, thank you. Let's move on to item number 1423 dash ZB dash 64 slash 65 VDYO dash USA Inc.

Speaker 2Do did Mr. Patel appear?

Speaker 1No.

Speaker 2Okay. We do not have a quorum for that application yet. It's a use variance. We need five members present to start the application. I recommend that Maybe we should do the resolutions.

Speaker 0Resolutions. Sounds

Speaker 2Good. And try and reach Mr. Patel again to see if he's going to appear.

Speaker 5I agree. Thank you Mr. Kinneally.

Resolutions — Memorialization of Prior Approvals AI 00:11:52 – 00:13:01

Board memorialized five prior decisions: Hernandez and Tars Lopez (approved), Samad Lilia (withdrawn), John Minno (approved), Mohammed Ri front setback variance (approved), and Equity Land (approved after language revision). All resolutions passed unanimously.

Speaker 2Okay. First resolution. Walter Hernandez and Tars Lopez, which you voted to approve. Mr. Mitterando?

Speaker 0Yes.

Speaker 2Mr. Ali? Yes. Chairman. Cahill. Yes. Next is Samad Lilia. This applicant decided to withdraw the application during the public hearing. Mr. Mitterando? Yes. Mr. Ali? Yes. Chairman. Cahill. Yes. Next is John Minno, which you voted to approve. Mr. Mitterando? Yes. Mr. Ali? Yes. Chairman. Cahill. Yes. Next is Mohammed Ri. This was a application for front setback, which you voted to approve. Mr. Mitterando? Yes. Mr. Ali? Yes. Chairman. Cahill. Yes. And last is equity land. This was from a month ago. We had some delay regarding the language in the resolution, but it's now set to go. Mr. Mitterando? Yes. Mr. Ali? Yes. Chairman. Cahill. Yes. Those are all the resolutions I have this evening. Perhaps we can wait till we hear from Ms. Buckley to see if Mr. Patel is going to be able to join us. I

Speaker 0Just spoke to him. Steve Weisman. I just spoke to Kalpesh. She's joining us now.

Speaker 2Thank you.

Speaker 0Appreciate that.

Case 23-ZB-64/65V: VDYO USA Inc. — Hindu Temple Complex 23-ZB-64/65V AI 00:13:22 – 00:40:11

Application for Hindu temple (Vishva Yuvak Organization—international youth organization) at 464 Mettler's Lane (former florist). Requires use variance (religious facility with priest residences), building height variance (38 feet vs. 35-foot maximum), parking variance (168 spaces vs. 240 required), and retaining wall fence height variance (13 feet vs. 6-foot maximum). Expert testimony addressed facility operations (weekend services 30–50 people per 6–7 hours with multiple 45-minute services, weekday 15–30 people, four annual holidays 200–300 people over 6–8 hours controlled by website registration), traffic analysis confirming level of service B on peak Saturday, and site design with landscaping and environmental protections. Board voted to carry case to December 14, 2023 with no further notice to secure full 7-member quorum required for use variance (only 5 members present).

Speaker 9Now how? I don't see Gie on.

Speaker 1He's coming now.

Speaker 9No, I mean my client.

Speaker 0Yeah. Gie RA's supposed to be there.

Speaker 1Well, he he's on as an attendee. He didn't use the link. So I will That's Ramesh. What was the name? I'm sorry. There's a bunch of people on here.

Speaker 0Goomer. R-A-J-I-V.

Speaker 1Shaw?

Speaker 9Yes.

Speaker 1All right. I will make him panelists. Yeah,

Speaker 0I think now he is on.

Speaker 1Yeah, I got him. I just sent him in. Thank

Speaker 0You very Laura.

Speaker 1You're welcome. Is there anybody else? 'cause there's a whole bunch of people. Are you missing anyone else while we're waiting?

Speaker 0No. I,

Speaker 9They just may wanna attend and view, that's all.

Speaker 0Oh yeah.

Speaker 9I mean, I didn't ask them all to be here, so

Speaker 1All

Speaker 9Thank you.

Speaker 0Okay.

Speaker 1Okay. We're almost there. Thank you for your patience everyone.

Speaker 0Thank you.

Speaker 9Thank you Laura.

Speaker 1Bye.

Speaker 0Kalpesh. What's up? What happened? He's, he's LinkedIn. I'm putting you on speed at Kalpesh, but say it again. What's happening?

Speaker 10No, like let's say IIII think I'm going at the public one. That's why.

Speaker 0Laura, can you help him?

Speaker 1I don't see him at all. Is he under a different name?

Speaker 0Logged in under a different name, sir?

Speaker 10No, no. Hold I, I go to the

Speaker 0Sht

Speaker 1So you could just,

Speaker 10I go to the public notice one, I click the link.

Speaker 1Yeah, but if you click the link, are you on your phone or your computer?

Speaker 10I'm on my phone. It says an email address is Patel. I'm just printing typing again.

Speaker 1Yeah. Mr. Kinneally, I don't know. I I sent them the link. I could resend it. I don't know what else to do.

Speaker 0Maybe you should try resending it

Speaker 7Can, can you resend me one more time

Speaker 0Please? Yes, they're doing that. We're gonna do it now. Kalpesh.

Speaker 1Yeah, but I have to open the whole thing again, so gimme a second. Alright,

Speaker 0We, we got time.

Speaker 1Do we? No kidding. Well,

Speaker 0We, we finished those first two applications in 15 minutes though. That's

Speaker 1True. We'll give you that. Okay. Thank you. Webinars, zoning, board. All right. I just resent him the link.

Speaker 0Let's give him a couple of minutes to set it up. Yep.

Speaker 1And then what I'm gonna do what I, this, I sent it to him two different ways. Chairman. So one of them should

Speaker 0We

Speaker 1He is almost here he comes. Yeah. Hi

Speaker 0Kalpesh.

Speaker 1Hey. Sorry.

Speaker 0No, no, no, no. Don't worry about

Speaker 1I have to change my device, so that's fine. Okay. Import

Speaker 0These you on? Okay, let's start. Let's proceed. Mr. Stahl.

Speaker 9Oh yes, I'm sorry. Jim Stahl. S-T-A-H-L per Ms. Boris Foley HL in North bru of New Jersey. I've had the pleasure of being before you previously Laura and Jim. Laura or Jim, do we have jurisdiction? Have we had the good? Yes, I

Speaker 2Reviewed the notice. It is adequate. We have jurisdiction to proceed.

Speaker 9Thank you very much, Jim. Alright, I'm gonna, I have a reputation, which I hope to keep tonight of being efficient yet quickly, quick in order to get my application through for the convenience of the board. This is an application I must admit, I'm rather privileged to be working on. And it's a, it's a Hindu temple at the former flower shop at the s-Curve on Mettler's Lane. I'm sure all of you who've lived in Piscataway remember the curve and remember the flower shop. I, I have about five witnesses, but they will, they will move quickly. This project is a, a result of a Township and applicant partnership if you will. Not financially, but we spent a lot of time with your professionals and our professionals and modified and revised the proposal two times to reduce the size that everyone was concerned about. We think so do the professionals but they can speak for themselves, feel that it's a very good fit.

Speaker 9And when you see the elevations, I mean it is an absolutely beautiful facility that I think you all be proud to, to be a part of. Assuming we obtain the approvals. Of course. My first, I have, I'll give you my witnesses. I have Rajiv Shah who is a volunteer but principal of the international organization of this temple. I then have the preeminent engineer, Chris Sole from Menlo Engineering who will do the engineering testimony. I then have Nal Harari, an architect specializing in temples. I then have the other preeminent that I use Mr. Jay Troutman with regard to traffic. And finally coming up the backside will be Ed Coing, the professional planner who will tie it all on a nice knot. We think we comply, we think we should get this approval for the reasons that Ed will give you. We do not think we're making any impediments to traffic based upon what I'm gonna elicit from what Rajeev, there is an issue that Chris will deal with later with regard to an additional 25 spaces, which we, I think we're gonna look for a waiver from, but bank them in the event we need them in the future so we don't have to come back again.

Speaker 9But I think Chris will very adequately describe that. Rajiv, would you please raise your right hand and do you like to be affirmed or swear? Affirmed. Okay. Mr. Who?

Speaker 2I'm sorry. He, he broke up. I didn't hear his answer.

Speaker 9Affirm.

Speaker 2Okay sir, do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give shall be the truth?

Speaker 11Yes sir.

Speaker 2Your name and address please?

Speaker 11RAHA 28 31 Taylor Crest, Missouri City, Texas 7 7 4 5 9. Thank you.

Speaker 9Slow down. You have to slow down a little bit. Your first name is Rajiv. R-A-G-I-V. Your last name is Shah, is that correct? Yes,

Speaker 11That is correct.

Speaker 9Okay.

Speaker 11Yes, that is correct.

Speaker 9And you are associated with an organization called AVYO. Please tell the board what VYO stands for and please for my benefit, 'cause I'm not gonna pronounce it, spell the v ji. We're having technical

Speaker 11Difficulty. So it's youth organization, it's, can you hear me?

Speaker 9Yeah, but you do break up so just check it out.

Speaker 11Okay. I represent youth organization, also known as VYO. It's an international organization providing facilities across the globe for the betterment of the youth and the Hindu zone.

Speaker 9And you, how many do you have worldwide?

Speaker 11We have got, we are in 15 countries and currently we've got over 80 centers across the globe.

Speaker 9Alright. And you have selected on behalf of the VYO, the Piscataway location, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct.

Speaker 9And you believe that there is, there is a need for it in this community and immediately adjoining communities, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct.

Speaker 9Oh yeah. We're not reaching out for, for people in outer counties, but really the, the central Jersey Piscataway area, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes. Jamie,

Speaker 9Now I'm gonna try and until Mr. Kinneally tells me I'm doing too much leading, I'm gonna try and help you out here. We have a structure which is going to be the temple. Is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes. And how

Speaker 9Many deities are there?

Speaker 11There is going to be seven deis in there. Each one of them are different forms of Krishna.

Speaker 9Alright. And with regard to those seven, periodically their ornaments and their clothing is changed depending on the holiday, is that correct?

Speaker 11Well Jim, it'll be changed on daily basis. The ornament and the dresses and everything that changes on daily basis depending, it's based on the practices that we follow.

Speaker 9And there's gonna be food that is prepared for these ities, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yeah. So our priest will be preparing the food that we serve on daily basis.

Speaker 9And that is from a kitchen in the temple, is that correct?

Speaker 11Yes, that is correct, yes.

Speaker 9And there will be two priests and in the, in your religion you're, they're allowed to marry the lower priests if you will. But, so you may have two, you will have two priests on site possibly with a, a wife, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9And there are two apartments we've knocked off. Excuse the phrase, we've eliminated one. So there'll be two apartments with two bedrooms each, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9Bathrooms but no kitchen, is that correct?

Speaker 11Yes. They'll be using the primary kitchen that they to prepare the food?

Speaker 9Correct. And the, the role of these priests is to take care of the deities on a daily basis, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9Alright. Now the Mr. Javari will tell us about the floor plan, but in terms of this operation, you and the other devotees will come into the temple area and you go in a semi-circle viewing area to pray to the deities. Is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yeah. We go and do the services from there.

Speaker 9Now with regard to that, I'm gonna get to the services and these numbers are approximate, but I'm trying to use the larger numbers so everyone understands. Now there are services on Saturday and Sunday, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9And that can be anywhere from 30 to 50 people over a six or seven hour period, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9You'll have approximately six services, so you could have zero one, well you'll always have the priest, but you may have one to six or seven participants each of the hours over a six or seven hours, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9Now at the same time that we are doing the tempo prayers in the assembly in the big area, you also are gonna have a small school being operated in a social hall. Is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9And the maximum, again, and, and I'm using larger numbers than Mr. Coing may have had anywhere from 30 to 60 people will be in the educational area, but these 60 people are consistent with the other 50 that are at the service. So there could be a hundred over the course of a day, six hours. But the parents may be at service, the kids may be in a religious education area or the parents and the children could be together. So it's not as if there's a double up. Am I being accurate?

Speaker 11Yes. You have been very accurate, Jamie.

Speaker 9During the week you expect anywhere from 15 to 30, I think I said this already on a weekday basis, a Monday through Friday spread over a day, correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9Now you also intend to use a social hall from time to time, not for gigantic parties or anything, but for smaller social events and following services, you may have refreshments in the social area, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes. But

Speaker 9These are the same people who have gone to the services and now move into the social room to social to talk and maybe discuss certain religious topics, am I correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yeah.

Speaker 9And you also intend to use, to the extent it works for you community purposes, whether it's going to be vaccinations, if there's a program or yoga, you're not gonna use this for profit, but you're gonna use it for community outreach and to assist the community to the extent they, they need your help. Is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yeah. And we'll be doing something for stress management and avoiding some depressions and other kind of things as well to help the community so that we can be better

Speaker 9Like meditation, et cetera. And primarily you're interested in, in capturing the youth of the community, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9Now you have to help

Speaker 11The

Speaker 9I'm doing okay so far, right. Alright. Now we have four high holidays a year. Those are in different months because of the calendar that your organization that the church follows, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yeah. We use different calendars. So which does not align with the Western plan

Speaker 9And it's usually a quarterly four times a year, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9Now I, the amount of devotees that come to the high holidays could be as many as two to 300 people, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct.

Speaker 9Now that sounds like a lot of people and it is if you're going to pack them in in an hour, but those two to 300 people will be spread over services over a six to eight hour period, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9And, and this is a condition that, and in between each service, each 45 minute service, there'll be another 30 minute open period where you're gonna have your volunteers control traffic. So after 45 minutes, let's say one 15, the service is over, your volunteers will go out to make sure that cars safely leave and new cars safely enter. Also, if there's any traffic issue as indicated by the Piscataway Police Department, we agree to hire any necessary police department personnel for those holidays to control any traffic. Is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9Now, in your experience, you really, it it, this has worked out for you, has it not?

Speaker 11Yes, it, so currently we have got like four other locations like this in USA and all of them has been working pretty well, especially from the traffic as well as the people flow perspective.

Speaker 9Right now I'm gonna, one of the conditions we have and I have to tell the board, I'm pretty proud that it was my idea in a different town and a different town accepted this a different type of temple. It what's gonna happen is when you have the high holidays, you'll control how many people are in each service. Is that correct?

Speaker 11Yes.

Speaker 9And you and someone's gonna say, well how do you do that? And how do you do that? Is they will have to sign up on the website and they will get a timed ticket and that is when they are going to go to that service. Is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes. We're using in a special application so that people can register and we give them the timings when, which service that they need to attend.

Speaker 9And you believe that this will satisfy any, I'll call it any crunch that may occur from too many people coming. Is that correct?

Speaker 11That's true. Right? Yes.

Speaker 9Now I'm gonna give you, to the extent I forgot anything, there is a, the cooking, there is a cooking kitchen for the priests and the deities and then there is a hot table in the social hall, a warming table. Is that correct?

Speaker 11Yes. There'll be warming table because we'll be serving the food to the volunteers as well as the participants from time to time.

Speaker 9Yes. Alright, so it's not a full kitchen, it's really warming table, it's not

Speaker 11Table? No, it's just warm

Speaker 9Tables. You don't intend to cook there. If you were going to do any cooking or food handling, you understand that the organization will have to obtain the necessary food handlers licenses from either Piscataway or I believe it's really the county of Middlesex. Do you understand that?

Speaker 11Yes, I understand that,

Speaker 9Yes. Now, with regard to there is no call to worship, I'm sure the board understands the call to worship, we have no, no, we have no, forgive me, no horns, sirens, or sounds that emanate outside to that would affect the public indicating worship times. Is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9So we, we just, we don't have it the, as Mr our architect may say, we have certain, I'm gonna call them spiritual or religious additions to the building, which there's a discussion whether they are height or not, but that is part of what you have there, is that correct?

Speaker 11That is correct, yes.

Speaker 9Now one last question and then I'll ask you if you have anything else. The priests that live on site now, I don't know whether you're familiar with how some other religions work that being in the Catholic faith, you know, having a rectory nearby the church and the Jewish faith having a parsonage and the Protestant also having some type of a, a house provided to the minister. Is it essential that the two priests live on premises?

Speaker 11Yes, it is essential and it's must have requirement for us because it's just like, I'm using a simple analogy that when doctor goes for the surgery, they need to be prepared just before they go to the operations theater. Similarly, when they're serving the day, our priest needs to be, go through a special process and hence they need to be on site in the same building.

Speaker 9Right. And I wanna ask a question which, well, it's, it's a, it's a necessary question. Under no circumstances you understand, is anyone to use those two apartments except for the priest? You understand that?

Speaker 11Yes. Yes.

Speaker 9And no one is doing, under no circumstances do you lease or allow anyone other than the priest to reside in those apartments.

Speaker 11That is absolutely correct and we won't be doing it either anyway,

Speaker 9Is there anything I have omitted from my extraction of information from you?

Speaker 11No, I think you've done, everything that we discussed has been covered.

Speaker 9Only the only the board can say that, not you. Okay, Mr. Chairman, subject to questions I give Mr. Shadi, you

Speaker 0Thank you, appreciate that. Any members of the board have any questions for Mr. Shah? Mr. Stall, you can proceed with your

Speaker 5Next I have one, two questions, Jim. Oh,

Speaker 0Please. Mr. Chaill,

Speaker 5Sorry, the, the festivals four times a year. Would you notify the police department in advance so it doesn't all of a sudden is a, you know, a traffic jam then the cops have to run up there That's just don't know how, how safe it would be to have parishioners out in Met Lane directing traffic?

Speaker 9No, no. I will answer John. 'cause I know that absolutely. In fact, I'm sorry I didn't think of that first. But we will notify the police department quarterly. We'll give them the dates that we're gonna have holiday. Yeah.

Speaker 5Josiah is not surprised. That's all right.

Speaker 9They may, may have to stop a football game just for this celebration. That's a joke. I

Speaker 5Oh the, there's no call to worship, but is there any outside parade or anything that takes place outside or is everything in the building?

Speaker 11Everything inside the building. We don't do anything outside of the building. Yeah,

Speaker 9Well there, I just wanna clarify that Rajiv, there is that courtyard outside, is there time periods when people may sit out there?

Speaker 5That's about what I'm talking about.

Speaker 11Yeah, it means they, they might be coming through there as a small position, but they won't be making any sound during that time. It's just basically they're just coming and doing, you know, coming in together from there.

Speaker 9Okay.

Speaker 5Each

Speaker 11One and won't be making any louder noise noises.

Speaker 5Each one of these temples has its own character and sometimes there is outside events and sometimes there are not. You do not.

Speaker 11We do not.

Speaker 5Do you have weddings there?

Speaker 11No. We are not planning to have weddings there. No weddings,

Speaker 5Funerals in

Speaker 11The community hall. We might allow somebody to come out and do wedding, but again, it would be internal. Won't be outside.

Speaker 5Okay,

Speaker 0Thank you John. Any other members of the board have

Speaker 5Any questions? The number of parking space is gonna be done by Mr. Trout.

Speaker 9John, I'll have to leave that for Chris.

Speaker 5Okay.

Speaker 9Chris and Jay Troutman have the calcs?

Speaker 5Yes. Okay.

Speaker 0Okay, great. Okay, Mr. Stahl, call you next please.

Speaker 9Thank you very much. Chris Sole. Chris

Adoption of 2024 Zoning Board Calendar AI 00:40:11 – 00:41:33

Board Item 15: Motion to adopt 2024 Zoning Board calendar. All members voted in favor.

Speaker 12I'm here.

Speaker 9Please raise your hand. Right hand.

Speaker 2Raise your hand

Speaker 0Mr. Sta That's Mr. Cane's job to do that? He'll, he'll raise his hand.

Speaker 2Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?

Speaker 12Do

Speaker 9Is your volume on Chris?

Speaker 2Yeah. I can't hear Mr. Sole.

Speaker 9Chris, fix your hear at all. It's better. Go ahead.

Speaker 12Can you hear me now?

Speaker 9Yes Jim. And can you hear him now?

Speaker 2Yes, I can hear him now.

Speaker 12Okay, thanks. Sorry about that. I,

Speaker 9Chris, I do, you were engaged by the applicant, your firm for site engineering, is that correct?

Speaker 12That's correct.

Speaker 9Are you please give the board the benefit of your education and licensing.

Speaker 12Yes, my name's Christopher Sole. Last name is S as in Sam, Z as in Zebra, ALAY. I currently work at Menlo Engineering Associates located at 2 61 Cleveland Avenue in Highland Park, New Jersey. I received a bachelor's degree in civil engineering from the University of Rhode Island in 2008. And I've been a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey since 2013. I've testified in PIs before.

Speaker 9I asked that he be qualified Mr.

Adoption of October 26, 2023 Meeting Minutes AI 00:41:33 – 00:41:47

Board Item 17: Minutes from regular meeting of October 26, 2023 approved. All members voted in favor.

Speaker 12Mr. Sole's qualifications. We're good. Chris,

Speaker 9Please proceed. Mr. Mr. Weisman has his hand up. I don't know whether that's a mistake or I just wanted Laura to know. It's alright. Alright, Chris, you know how I like to do it. I'd like to do the following. I'd like you to present to the board A, the existing conditions, what it is today, B, what the proposal is for the development and C if the Chairman agrees, we can then respond to staff comments or do that later. Okay?

Adjournment AI 00:41:47 – 00:42:03

Meeting adjourned. Chairman thanked board members for volunteering and wished everyone happy Thanksgiving. Next meeting scheduled for second week of December 2023.

Speaker 12Sure. Sounds good. Now I have prepared two exhibits, actually three exhibits for you this evening. Is it okay if I share my screen? Yes. Yeah, please do. Can everyone see the exhibit on my screen? Yes, it's, it's up there. Okay, so first exhibit is titled 4 64 Mets Lane, existing conditions exhibit dated 11 9 20 23. This exhibit I can mark into evidence as a one. A one.

Speaker 9Thank

Speaker 12You. And this is an exhibit depicting with an aerial background depicting the site and the surrounding areas. It shows the existing conditions and it has the property boundary highlighted. And the second exhibit, which I'll mark as a two, is entitled 4 64 Mettler's Lane Overall plan Exhibit also dated 11 9 23 and this is a colorized rendering of the submitted overall plan with zoning landscaping turned on and over top of that same aerial background. And the third exhibit, which I'll introduce if we get to it, but it, it shows where the land bank parking will will be introduced. But the, to go through the site description, the property is designated is a rectangle shaped lot designated as block 97 0 1 lots, 28.01 and 28.03 as a designated on a tax map of the Skyway Township. The site contains approximately 327 linear field frontage on Metler Lane, which is a county road, also known as county Route 6 0 9. The address is 4 64 Metler Lane, which is on the south side of Mettler's Lane, approximately 300 feet from the intersection with Sutton's Lane. And overall the property is approximately 5.6 acres and is located entirely within the r dash 20 residential zone Surrounding the property, you'll see that we have single family residential pretty much on all sides of, of the property, only met early frontage and some wooded area to the north and northwest of the property under existing conditions. Lemme lemme ask

Speaker 9You question Chris, lemme ask you two questions before I forget. Nor in the northern corner, the northeastern corner, that was a house that BYO acquired in order to square off the property, isn't that correct?

Speaker 12Correct.

Speaker 9And that was because there could have been issues with regard to driveway exit, et cetera, and it made sense to acquire the property, correct? Yeah, correct. And one last question before I forget. I had indicated in my introduction working with the Township, we reduced the, the footprint of the buildings about 24%. Is that correct?

Speaker 12Yes, that's correct because

Speaker 9We, we, we wanted them, we wanted to respond to the township's concern on size. Okay, go right ahead now.

Speaker 12Okay, thank you. Okay, so the site is current, currently developed, it's occupied by two single family dwellings as well as a former retail building or Mettler's florist. And they're, they're all located along the front frontage along Met Lane, there's currently three curb cuts. There's one to the northern most dwelling and then two to the Metler florist. And the second dwelling has driveway has access off that, that parking area for the florist. The remainder of lot is mostly open space and Woods. Woods with a small stone or gravel parking area. And then there's two areas of wetlands. One at the center of the site you'll see, which is an isolated wetland with a buffer. And then there's a second wetland that runs along the southern property line. It's a, there's an existing ditch there that has a wetland buffer and 50 foot repairing buffer. So although the site is 5.6 acres, the environmentally restrictive areas reduces the site developable area to about 4.2 acres from that 5.6.

Speaker 12Now, what we are proposing for the site moving to exhibit A to the applicant, see an approval to demolish all of the existing buildings and features on site outside of that environmentally restrictive area in order to construct two new buildings and associated parking. That site will function as religious facility as previously discussed by the client. The front building is a three story 10,460 foot footprint located about the midpoint of the site. And it meets all the required setbacks for front yard, side, yard, and rear yard. The first floor of the building will contain an exhibition hall and classrooms and through the buildings a little bit more, but I just wanna give a little bit of a rundown. The second floor will be the prayer hall and the third floor will be where the living quarters are. The, the two apartments with two bedrooms each for the priests.

Speaker 12This building is where a few of our variances are focused and created. So the, the use of this site for religious purposes for worship and Sunday school type use is a conditional use and permitted the fact that there are living quarters for the priests for religious purposes creates the use variance that we're seeking tonight. The, the fact that there is, this is a worship hall also allows for a maximum of five acres for the site. And since we are at 5.6 acres variances required, but again, as I described, due to these environmental environmentally restrictive areas, you'll see we really kept disturbance out of a large swath of the southern portion of the site and reduced the developable area to 4.2 acres where again, the site permits a maximum of five acres. And one, one more variance focused on this front building is for building height, where a maximum maximum of 35 feet is permitted, 38 feet is requested.

Speaker 12And again, I'll let the architect discuss this a little bit more, but as Mr. Stall stated, we did reduce the, the overall building footprints of both buildings by about 24%. But, but the height is, is certainly required and again, partially for religious purposes. Now the second building is a two story 6,570 square foot multi-purpose building that's ancillary to the, to the place of worship or the, or the temple. It's set directly behind the front building. And the two buildings are connected by about a 5,000 square foot paver patio between the two buildings. Now the two, and again, this, this rear building meets all required setbacks as well. The two buildings total of building co total building coverage is 7% of the site where 20% is permitted. So we're well with under the permitted building coverage. And again, we worked with the Township to, you know, make sure that everyone's happy with the proposal and reduce the building square footage by quite a bit, even though, as you can see, we're well under the committed building coverage.

Speaker 12Access to the site is by way of a right in, right out driveway. We consolidated the three curb cuts along Mettler's laying down into one. So the entrance to the site leads to a front parking area. There's also 24 foot wide drive aisles around both sides of the building that lead to parking on the sides of the building and also to the rear of the building. There's a total of 168 parking spaces proposed where 240 parking spaces are required. This, of course, is a, a, a variances required for this parking. And we do have our traffic engineer who will touch on that a little bit more. But really we have a shared parking condition here. The two buildings work, you know, they're ancillary to each other. We're not gonna have one function at the front building and a whole separate function at the rear building.

Speaker 12So if you look at the parking requirements for each building, the front religious facility requires 125 spaces and the rear facility requires 115 spaces. But really they're working together. And so that, that total, I believe is, is consolidated. And due to the fact that we have multiple worship times throughout the day, we're really reducing the max, the maximum use of the site at any one given time. So we feel that there, there's more than enough parking on site, but there was a comment from our planner or from the township's planner in to introducing land bank parking in order to possibly, you know, address the parking situation should an issue arise in the future. And so I did lay out where we would propose 20, you know, about 25 to 30 additional spaces along the northeast driveway. You can see we, we kept parking out of this area even though it's, it's obvious that we could add more parking and that's due to a 50 foot parking setback from adjacent residential properties.

Speaker 12So you'll see on this additional exhibit i I created, what would, where this additional parking would be located. This is a copy of the overall plan that was submitted, but it has a modification to it to show these additional parking spaces. Now, I showed 30 spaces here, but of course we, we may have landscape islands or, or may wanna reduce the limits of the parking. So I'd say 25 to 30 spaces could be added to the, to this aisle. And at worst, I'd say the, the parking setback would be 31 1 0.5 feet from the adjacent residential property where 50 feet is required. So should the Township like us to land bank these parking spaces, we would require a parking setback variance for these additional spaces of that 31 and a half feet where 50 feet is required.

Speaker 12Now, moving on to, so the spaces are all nine by 18, which is meets Township requirements and dry vials are 25 foot wide. Also meeting Township requirements. We did make a modification based on fire official comments. The fire official wanted 25 foot interior radio, which we accommodated and wanted us to. We previously had a one-way drive VI angle parking. We widened up the dry vial to accommodate the fire officials comments and provided 90 degree parking here. So we did, we did some additional impervious coverage, which was offset by reducing the building, but feel this actually works better with, with flow throughout the site and meets all the Township requirements. We'll be providing EV parking spaces as required by the state statute. And seven handicapped spaces are provided at the north northeast corner of the front worship building to provide accessibility to these religious facilities by way of sidewalk that interconnects around around the two buildings. And we also provided sidewalk along, met the Metler lane frontage along its entirety, which again is, is going to be under county reveal.

Speaker 0Can I ask a quick question, Chris? Sure. How many EV stations are you providing?

Speaker 12I, I believe it's, it's 4% when, when you get over 150 spaces. So we'll meet the statute, but it's 4% of 168. So it's, it'll be seven EV spaces.

Speaker 0Okay, thank you. Please proceed.

Speaker 5The recommendation, they're operable when you open the facility. Is that your intent?

Speaker 12We have not discussed that. I believe we're only required make ready by the statute, but if the Township would like

Speaker 5By statute, but some would've to be opera too, I suggest that you just do put 'em in and have them work

Speaker 9Well. What is the request, John? What's the request from the board

Speaker 0To have the EV stations up, up and working for the opening of the center?

Speaker 9Well, I think that, I don't You think that's a problem, Chris?

Speaker 12No, no, not at all. It's, it's no really the, whether it's make ready or it's operational, we're we have to run the electric conduit to the space. It's really just installing.

Speaker 0I think we'd prefer that if you accommodate that, that'd be great.

Speaker 9Thank you.

Speaker 0Please proceed.

Speaker 12Thank you.

Speaker 0Thanks Chris.

Speaker 12There is a dumpster enclosure provided along the Northern Drive aisle, right about the midpoint and adjacent to the existing buildings that will be enclosed and landscaped for screening purposes. And again, due the environmental constraints in some of the, the grade change along the site, were providing a retaining wall along the southwestern portion of the parking area. And this is where one of our variance is required for the fence, the safety fence that sits at top of the retaining wall since the retaining wall is tall. Point is about nine feet and there's a four foot high fence on top of that. The fence is considered to be 13 feet high, where six feet is permitted within residential zone. And again, that's really driven by the fact that we have this environmental constraint along the, the property where we're trying to provide as many parking spaces as we can while also, you know, reducing any environmental impact. And I think that hit all of the proposed

Speaker 9Right Chris, just to the board understands

Speaker 12One more. Is a a monument sign? Yes.

Speaker 9Well, before we do the monument sign, we have obtained a, a, a a sewer easement from a neighbor. Is that correct?

Speaker 12Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 9And if Mr. Kinneally wants to see a copy, I can get it to him. But we we have access to sanitary, correct?

Speaker 12Correct. Yes. And I, I'll touch on that, about to get to the storm stormwater and utilities, but the sanitary easement you'll see runs off the rear of the property through the adjacent lot and connects into the existing sanitary source system within Ley Avenue. But just to touch on the monument sign, we're proposing a monument sign. It meets all the required setbacks. The, the setback is 25 feet and a maximum of 32 square feet. And there, there was request to, to submit a detail, I believe we, we have a, a, an exhibit or we'll submit a, a copy of what the sign will look like to the zoning board for the, for the permit. But permit, I believe we have a, a similar one used on the LA facility that we'll be providing.

Speaker 5Is that sign lit?

Speaker 12Yeah, I believe there's going to be uplighting either uplighting or, or the sign will be back lit. We, we have not, not in,

Speaker 5Not in not internal lit lighting.

Speaker 12Okay. So, so up lit. We, we can accommodate whichever the Township prefers, but up, up lit would be fine.

Speaker 0The sign's just a standard sign. It's not digital or, or moving, I should say

Speaker 12That

Speaker 9Ock, but

Speaker 12Correct. Moving on to some of the more technical items. The storm water management. Since this is a major development due to the amount of disturbance and increasing impervious coverage, we are required to address storm water management, which we are handling via conventional stormwater management system of catch basins and underground pipe as well as porous pavement. The, the new green infrastructure requirements, porous pavement is being provided, it provides water quality and the stone bed beneath the porous pavement provides quantity reductions in a an environmentally friendly manner and meets all green infrastructure requirements where we'll meet Township requirements. And we're also discharging within the wetland buffer area, which requires ADEP permit and we're filling the isolated wetlands. So not only will the Township be reviewing the stormwater management, but the DEP will be reviewing the stormwater management along with the wetlands permits. So we'll get a thorough review of the design, but I'm, I'm confident it meets all requirements of the municipality, the county solar erosion, DEP to handle somewhere in using green infrastructure and maintaining the existing drainage pattern, which is from Mettler's Lane towards the rear of the property, towards the, the ditch along the southern portion of the property.

Speaker 12And that's where our discharge point is to continue to maintain that existing drainage pattern. The sewer connection we discussed through the, via the easement off the back of the property and gas, electric water is all to be serviced from the existing infrastructure within Mettler's Lane. The applicant is proposing a substantial amount of landscaping in order to provide some screening as all as well as beautify the site. There's a heavy buffer, a double row of evergreens along the northern per portion of the site, Northern Property line and along Mettler's Lane there's a double row of evergreens along the southwest property line. And then we're utilizing the existing trees and environmental area to provide some, some screening to the south. You can see off the property line to the southwest, there's there's some existing woods that exist there today as well. Overall, we're providing 58 shade trees, 142 Evergreens, 31 flowering trees, 429 shrubs and 511 ground cover dispersed throughout the site as well as internally and along the the buildings we have a, a, a request to provide some additional foundation plantings, which we are happy to do and we can, we can do so to satisfy the council professionals.

Speaker 12And in regards to lighting, finally we're designing the site to be safe and adequate utilizing LED light fixtures. We have 13 pole mounted fixtures mounted at 18 and a half feet high with an average of 1.39 foot candles, a minimum of 0.4 foot candles in the drive aisle and parking areas and average to minimum U uniform, the ratio of 3.48 to one. And again that, that all Township requirements to provide safe and adequate lighting and we have no spillage often to the adjacent residential properties. And the only slight spill is to light the intersection of the site with Mettler's Lane, which is really a, a safety concern and is recommended really to, to provide a safe entrance for for everyone. And that really summarizes my testimony unless there's any questions.

Speaker 0Chris, in the northern back of the property, you said there, you putting in a whole bunch of evergreens and I see that, do you know what size they're gonna be planted at and what's They'll they'll grow to Any idea?

Speaker 12I can, I can take a look real quick if you bear with me. Lemme take a look at my, just

Speaker 0Wonder what the height would be at maturity to buffer it with the neighbors.

Speaker 5Mr. Gale, they're basically always spruce in the, what is it? There are no green giants in there. I forget what it is. They're all gonna go up 30, 40 feet.

Speaker 0Oh, okay. Then. Then Chris, consider my question answered.

Speaker 5Yeah. If the board approves this application, what I suggest Mr. Stall, is that there is a number of recommendations in Mr. Stein's report dated November 3rd, 2023, relevant to landscaping and a couple other improvements on the property. Have you reviewed those and can you agree

Speaker 9I was gonna get to Mr. Yeah,

Speaker 12We review those comments, objections

Speaker 5Would,

Speaker 12I'm sorry, one at a time please. I,

Speaker 5Yeah,

Speaker 9I know. I seldom disagree with Mr. Hinterstein. I was gonna ask Chris if he can just indicate that all engineering comments and staff reports can be complied with. Do we have any issues, Chris?

Speaker 12Yes. No, we, we don't have any issues. I think there was a few comments that required some additional testimony, which I believe I have touched on. Yes, you did. Unless I missed anything.

Speaker 9Thank you. The picture is yes, John, the

Speaker 5Okay. The dedication of on Mets lane, that's really a county jurisdiction, but are you willing to do that?

Speaker 9What? Well that's subject to the county.

Speaker 5I

Speaker 9If they say, so do

Speaker 5It item item 12 is county jurisdiction. And you would like that not included?

Speaker 9Chris, your call.

Speaker 12Yeah, I think an e if we were going to say yes right now, I would say an easement would be better so as not to impact, you know, coverages and, and setbacks.

Speaker 5Okay. All

Speaker 12Right. But again, I, I think the county is pretty thorough with the, with everyth review the right of way.

Speaker 5Okay. And the only last item I didn't, maybe you did say it. Do you ever lights out provision on this plan? We generally re ask when the, you know, the temple is not occupied on service hours, whatever most of the park parking lot lights would be out other than the intersection you described as driveway that you described.

Speaker 12We have no objection to that and we have all of our lights on a timer, so, okay. Whatever the requirement is, we can.

Speaker 5Alright.

Speaker 0John, what would that time be? 10:00 PM 11?

Speaker 9Well I don't have the lights. 10 would be, 10 would be fine unless during the holidays it's still being used, you know, for some late services.

Speaker 0Okay.

Speaker 5My report is dated November 6th and Chris addressed most of the items that were of an engineering nature. So we won't drag this out any longer.

Speaker 0Okay. We can move forward. Any other

Speaker 5Comments?

Speaker 0Any other, any other board members have any questions or comments from Mr. Sole? We're good. Mr. Stall, you can move forward.

Speaker 9Yes sir. Na, where are you

Speaker 0Mr. Sole? Take you. Thank you.

Speaker 9There you go. All right. Na,

Speaker 13I'm here.

Speaker 9All right. Mr. Cornelia, here he is.

Speaker 2You raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give be the truth?

Speaker 9I do.

Speaker 2Thank you.

Speaker 9Please state your name, spelling your last name.

Speaker 13Sure. My first name is Nehal, N-E-H-A-L. Last name is Veri, J-H-A-V-E-R-I.

Speaker 9And what are, what are you engaged as?

Speaker 13I'm an architect, I'm a licensed professional in the state of New Jersey and a couple of other states.

Speaker 9How long in New Jersey?

Speaker 1313 years.

Speaker 9And it's still valid in full force?

Speaker 13That is correct sir.

Speaker 9Have you appeared before this board before?

Speaker 13No.

Speaker 9But other boards in New Jersey,

Speaker 13Absolutely Mr.

Speaker 9His

Speaker 0Credentials. Fine. Mr. Sa, we can move forward.

Speaker 9Thank you. Alright, you Hil, now you can, you're my friend and I respect you, but don't take a lot of time on this. Okay? I know you're proud of your work, but I just, the board

Speaker 0Appreciates that ahead of time, by the way.

Speaker 9No, he's very good. But I know the hell I, I want you to describe a elevations with material, the floor plans. You don't have to go through each element because I think Rajiv did. So just, you know, I want the board to know what's going on, but we wanna respect your time. Okay. Go to it Abso

Speaker 13Absolutely. May I share my screen please? Yeah.

Speaker 0Yes, please do.

Speaker 13Thank you.

Speaker 13Okay. Yes, you can see my screen. Okay. First off, I have this sheet number Z one dated 10 20 2023 at its first floor plan, what we have is two buildings. On the right side is the first floor of the main temple building. And to the left is just the portion of the second ancillary building. You would enter from the right side here on the first level, you go to the floor, you go towards the, I mean this is normally everybody will have to do it. They go, they take off their shoes, clean up their feet or wash their hands. Come inside this lobby, go upstairs through elevator or you would take the stairs to go to the second floor. That's primarily the main function of the lobby at the four area. If there is an exhibition of educational religious purposes in this exhibition hall, they would proceed to the exhibition hall and walk around and get out to the back. On the first floor. We have four classrooms distributed along the entire back along with the, you know, the men and women or boys and girls bathrooms so that they don't have to cross the exhibition hall all the way to the other side of the front. And then you can get out from the back door, go towards the courtyard and

Speaker 9Stay. Stay for a minute, stop for a second. The, yes sir. The indication patio play area, I mean that is not for a childcare, that's just an outdoor area where some of the youngsters can be when the parents are at services. Is that correct?

Speaker 13That is correct.

Speaker 9All right, go ahead.

Speaker 13Thank, thanks for clarification. And then you could go to the ancillary building. So that's how they're connected through this patio. Open patio. I'd like to say that when you get up to the second floor through the elevator and staircase, I'm gonna go to the second sheet. That's the second floor. It's called Z two, again dated 10 22. It is a second floor. That's where we have the main worship hall. Now the worship hall has about 20 foot ceiling. I'll get to that why I mentioned that. And the primarily, you could come up the stairs, the monumental stairs on either side, they're open stairs. You can come up to the covered entry porch area and you can enter the lobby or you come through the elevators or stairs, come through the lobby into the prayer hall. 'cause you've already taken off your shoes downstairs for the most part.

Speaker 13You'd be in the prayer hall area. That's an altar is something. And all the space behind the altar is completely restricted just for the priest. Nobody else can go there. Again, this is very different than most of the other Hindu temples. We have this seven deities altogether, the five being the gods shines and the high priest area. And the other side we have the offering room. So that's how they consider the seven, you know, deities there. Behind the altar area, again, it's primarily restricted area through this staircase. From upstairs, the priest are gonna come down. They would come down here, and then the, that's where they have various rooms here, mainly for storage and kitchen area. You may wonder why we have three different kitchens. Again, this is the way everything works. That one, one part of the, one type of the food cannot really test the other type, meaning the wet food, the dry food, and the daily food.

Speaker 13Everything has to be separated. That's why we have these three different kitchens. And then you have all these different storages that we have for ornamentations and decorations and things along that line. Now the priest has to come and they will take the shower every time that they are worshiping or they are preparing things for God. So they have to take, come here, take shower, and then go inside the altered area. Only the high priest, whenever they come in, they have the access to the back again. They also have to, he will also have to take shower and go in the back. So very, very restricted area. Nobody goes there. There's two STA gases on either end, Staca two and Staca three. On the other side, it would be used by the priest, and in case of emergency, it would be used from the third level.

Speaker 13Now you can go up to the third level through elevator and stairs. When I call third level, and I mentioned 20 foot ceiling height, also, that ceiling height allows us to have some sort of a mezzanine area. But since, because technically speaking, it exceeds the building code requirement, we had to call it a third floor. Otherwise, it's merely a mezzanine because of how it's tucked in within the overall two story space. So you have all these open area. In the middle, you have a viewing area, a small viewing area, and then you have a smaller corridor on either side, what we call pilgrimage corridor. Again, they have restriction. They cannot go behind here for the most part because it's a priest area. And then a lot of these ceremonial storages that we gonna need, we had to take it from the second floor and put it up here.

Speaker 13So we have two apartments for the priest. We do not have any kitchen in there. Again, they have to cook downstairs, only use that food only. Whatever they're offering to the gods. We also have a high priest resting room. Whenever he comes here once or twice a year, whenever he decides to come here, that's where he is gonna rest. And public can have access to him from this corridor. With appointments mo, mainly as far as the second building is concerned, hopefully this is explanatory by now. I'm gonna go to the second building, ancillary building. We call it dining hall. Sorry, I'm moving too much. Dining hall, multipurpose hall. That's where again, all these social activities are gonna occur for the most part. We do have a kitchen that's a warming kitchen. The fruit is brought here, and then we are gonna warm it up and serve again.

Speaker 13We have this accessory, bathrooms, and, you know, women and men's bathroom, you can go again. This one, this hall has a monumental about 20 feet ceiling height. Similar thing that we have done here, just above the kitchen area and the bathrooms. We have partial second floor only, which has the administration office, another office, and some storage area that's, they're gonna require vessels and things along that line if they need to put it up there on the second level. I'm gonna go to the, oh, first of all, I, I guess the first building temple building is about 25,800 square feet in total for all the floors. And the second building is about 8,000 square feet. The ancillary building, I'm gonna go to the building elevations. What we have is a monolithic building, monolithic color, more or less throughout. It's gonna be more, more or less a beige, a sort of stone or stone looking stucco.

Speaker 13We still have to figure it out what kind of material that we are gonna have at the end of the day, but it's gonna be the earth tone. And most, most of the things are gonna be only one color, not multiple colors, or not very vibrant colors or anything like that. There is a lot of unionization that we had to do here. Some of these, some of these spears that you see here, they are more or less required. We have seven of them, mainly because it represents the seven, seven, the, the dots that we have inside. So it represents that, and that's why we had to have those seven, you know, spears up top, the height of the building is to, the roof is 38 feet, and all the way on the top of the sphere, the, the highest tallest sphere we have is about 46 feet.

Speaker 13You have the corridor all around with, again, the more like a traditional Indian architecture is what we try to present here. Most of the time you don't see all around, but that's what we are trying to present here, so that it, it, it does feel like very authentic, still grounded, not too tall, not too big, but that's what we feel that this represents. Under the front. Same thing happens all around. So all the other sites also similar colors, similar material except for two materials, most likely we will not have any other materials. We may have the, what they call it, fiberglass decorations. So a lot of these decorations or the roofs and all that could be made out of fiberglass that we have used on other temples in the area and outside of New Jersey as well. So we feel confident about that, how they're gonna look and how they're gonna fit in.

Speaker 13Again, it's same thing on the other side. So pretty much the building is mirrored and identical on both sides. This is the rear of the building where the first floor is tucked in, and the second floor and third floor are, or hanging the second, you know, the portion of the first floor here, this is the courtyard side. I'm gonna go to the second building. It's, it is not as eminent as the, the front building because first of all, it hides behind completely heights behind the first building. And it's, we didn't make it too elaborate as the first building because it's just an ancillary building and it supports the activities that's going on on the first building, on the temple building. These are all the other sites, similar materials all around. So no, no variations in that. Even if it's hiding behind lots of windows. Again, you know, we try to put a lot of natural lights and all that. That's what we have. Jim, is it okay if I go to the renderings

Speaker 9Real quick?

Speaker 13Yes, I know I took a long time.

Speaker 0Thank you Mr. Stahl. Again,

Speaker 13Sorry about that. So this, you can see the overview of the, you know, the, the bird's eye view of the building, how they sit on the property and how they look. Again, the colors you can see and the materials more or less, you can see what we try to achieve here.

Speaker 9Okay, looks good. Thank you.

Speaker 13Thank you, sir.

Speaker 0Any members of the board have any questions or comments?

Speaker 5One quick question, Mr. Chairman,

Speaker 0Please. John,

Speaker 5Are the sugars gonna have lights in 'em or are they gonna be dark?

Speaker 13I'm sorry. No, no, they're gonna be dark. Okay. Yeah, we won't have lights above. Those

Speaker 5Are, those are the projections above the deities?

Speaker 13That's correct.

Speaker 0Okay. Okay. Thank you Mr. Chadwick. Any other members? No. Mr. Stall, put on your next witness.

Speaker 9Okay. Where's, where's my preeminent traffic? Here. Thank you. Oh, he's got his hand up already.

Speaker 14Can you hear me?

Speaker 9Yep.

Speaker 2Could you raise your right hand? You swear the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?

Speaker 14Yes, I do. Your

Speaker 2Name and address please.

Speaker 14Jay Troutman McDonough and Ray Associates. 1 0 5 Elm Street, Westfield, New Jersey. Thank

Speaker 2You.

Speaker 9Hi, Jay. You are what? You are a traffic engineer, is that correct?

Speaker 14Yes. Licensed professional engineer specializing in traffic appeared before this board recently actually.

Speaker 0Great. Yes, your credentials are fine. You can proceed. Mr. Stelton,

Speaker 9Go ahead Mr. Jay, just, you know the drill. Give us your analysis and take care of this board.

Speaker 14Yes, go Going. Basically working from the outside in, we have a simple write-in right out access to the county road. So high control turning movements, no difficulties involving left turns or anything like that because of that right in right out, we only really have to have gaps to get right turns out. Onto that two lane section of Mettler's, we did what I'll call a worst case peak hour analysis. We took the, the Saturday traffic volumes, which is the highest day use day for this facility. And we, we assumed actually more of a church type event where everybody comes into a service and that everybody leaves a lot different than what actually happens, but it, it's a worst case traffic event. And we came up with a good grade on the level of service at level of service B in the Saturday peak hour. And again, operationally, I think this works in, in our favor from a traffic standpoint, just because of the, the flat traffic pattern of having six different services you can attend to see the gods.

Speaker 14So all the people are spread throughout the day day instead of focusing on one event. In terms of parking, I think the parking supply is generous. You could actually, with 168 spaces at three people per car, you could actually get 500 people on this site if that ever happened. Those are not the numbers that you heard earlier. That's a way higher number than what they would expect even on their largest festival day. The website scheduling for those larger, more intense days is an important condition just again, to keep the loading flat. And ha and those turnover times in between as well are very important in terms of getting that parking lot empty before the next event comes. With all of that in place, we could anticipate smooth traffic operations in terms of the parking variance. T typically at religious facilities, while the buildings may have a lot of different spaces, the spaces are never used simultaneously for big events.

Speaker 14And what I mean by that is the, the worship space may be active and then the same people are gonna go to the, the exhibition hall and the same people are gonna go to the classrooms and the same people are gonna go to the dining hall. So it's really just all the same people moving around to the different uses depending on what's on the schedule, so that you really don't need to park a site like this for, for simultaneous groups in each space, I believe that the parking variance can be justified. The amount of parking can handle the, what I think would be the largest event here. And just as a, as a safety precaution, I would endorse the banked parking space is in case the Township were to see something that they didn't like in terms of parking. They could always, they could always go to those bank spaces and require those to be constructed. And I think that's all I have.

Speaker 9Well, I just wanna clarify the, we're looking for a variance for the 25 spaces, but we would bank them in the event the Township required them. Is that what I just wanna clarify that

Speaker 14Yes, it would, it would be banked parking, meaning it's, it's, it doesn't, you don't construct the spaces, but you reserve it. If the Township were to, to require them to be constructed, they would only be constructed under that scenario. Okay.

Speaker 0Any members of the board? Mr. Chadwick, do you have any questions or comments?

Speaker 5Jim Kinneally the screen that showed the 25 spaces was not part of the submission. We should make that an exhibit.

Speaker 2Yeah, I believe Mr. Zalay said he was gonna mark it as a three, but I don't think we did. I will mark that as a three.

Speaker 9Thank you. That we Yeah. Craig, Chris had put that up.

Speaker 2Yes.

Speaker 5And any other members of the board have any questions? I agree with Jay's testimony. I think the 45 spaces probably will not be needed given the numbers that they talk about. But you never know who did the congregation it might grow

Speaker 9True. Alright. Alright, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chaill. Alright, Mr. Coing, Edward Coing.

Speaker 2Mr. Coing, are you present?

Speaker 15Yes, I am. Could

Speaker 2You raise your right hand, swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?

Speaker 15Yes, I do. Thank

Speaker 2You.

Speaker 9Alright, ed, give a quick overview of your life's experience.

Speaker 15Okay, well I'm a graduate of Rutgers University in 1974. I've been licensed as a planner since 1984. I've appeared in before boards throughout the, the state of New Jersey. I have a, I appeared once in Piscataway more than a few years ago at the planning board, but I have appeared lo more locally at New Brunswick in New Brunswick and Franklin Township, I've,

Speaker 2I I believe Mr. Colling can as an expert. Thank you. Yes, I believe as well. Mr. Stall, please proceed.

Speaker 9Alright, Mr. Cole, please, you were engaged to do a professional planning testimony with regard to the required variances. Let's hear you.

Speaker 15Okay. And I'll try not to be too redundant because a lot of this has been covered by the other professionals, but I do want to point out this is an R 20 zone that, that's primarily designed for single family homes and 20,000 square foot lots. The proposed use of a house of worship temple church, whatever we wanna refer to it as, is a permitted conditional use. We will need a couple of variances from the, the conditions the proofs for AD three conditional use variance are really centered upon a, a proof that the deviations from the criteria will not diminish the property suitability for the conditional use. And that's what we're going to be discussing. We do meet most of the conditions or standards for the, for this use. However, we do exceed the maximum permitted lot area, which is five acres, as the engineer mentioned, we're 5.6 acres.

Speaker 15I think that we, the property though, we have to recon consider that the, it is impacted by the wetlands and the buffers. And so the resulting usable or functional area is more like 4.2 acres. And this is within the permitted lot area. And as such, I think that the proposed project is consistent with the intent of the zone plan and the intent of that particular reg regulation and the granting of the variance would not have any detrimental impact on that intent of the zone plan, nor would it have any substantial detriment to the general welfare and public goods. In fact, I think the additional lot area does allow for a functional lot area and still allow for the wetlands and buffer areas to be protected. So I think that, again, the conditional use and variance in this regard can be, can be granted. The other condition has to do with a building containing a hospital, church, or other place of worship Sunday school or church school shall not be used for any other use.

Speaker 15And in, in my own personal, my professional opinion, I think that the temple actually does meet, meet that criteria. I know there's some question about some of the other ancillary uses that are within the temple, but I would, I would say that these functions are really ancillary accessory and essential to the function of, of the temple. So that I think we do fall within what the definition of a, of a church is or temple in this, in this regard is a is a building or structure or groups of buildings and structures or structures that by designing construction are primarily intended for conducting organized religious services. And that's what the, the temple is. Any of those other functions, whether it be the church office meeting rooms, the, the priest residents for instance or other preparation areas are all accessory and subordinate to and customarily incidental to the church or temple use.

Speaker 15Having residents as part of a church is really rather common. Whether you call it a parsonage, a parish house directory, residential component as part of a church is very common. So I think that this is really accessory to customary and incidental. However, if you're, if the variance is, is required, I see that I, I don't believe that that would result in any substantial detriment. The, the, the, the residents, the offering, offering areas and all those other sort of functions are all within the church with, within the temple are all essential to the function of the temple. And I don't think that they really resulted any detriment to the intent of the zone plan again. And I also think that the, the inclusion of those uses would have any detrimental impact on the general welfare of public, public good. Again, they're all within the, the building.

Speaker 15They don't, they, they are not standalone uses. They're not standalone residences. So I think that the impact would be rather slight, if any at all. And in fact, this use is inherently beneficial. So I think you have to look at that from any impact on the general welfare or the public good. That same sort of discussion about the accessory versus principal uses, I think plays into the parking variance. There is a parking requirement found in the conditional use requirements and that is simply one space or for each three seats or 72 inches of seating space within the house of worship. So that would be 125 parking spaces. And we have 168 parking spaces. So there's no variance from the conditional use standard. And I think that that's written that way because there's a recognition that these are accessory functions and that as the traffic engineer pointed out, these uses don't compete, don't compete with each other.

Speaker 15They share the, the, the parking essentially so that, you know. So I don't think that there'd be any detriment by granting the variance to the department requirement at is that is found in section 24 7 0 2 0.2, which is in the general in the, in the, I think it's the site plan ordinance. It's not part of the conditional use standards. There is a provision in that portion of the ordinance that talks about the parking requirement for each use shall be computed separately and then, then added together to compute the total number of required parking spaces. And I think for, as a professional planner, that that, that requirement is really more aimed at where you have a combination of principle uses where each use is going to have its own requirements and its own parking demand. In this case, there really is only one principle use the temple.

Speaker 15And the other uses, again, are ancillary and they, they're intended to function together to compliment each other. And they don't really have a, a, an increased say, parking demand for each use. They share that demand. So I think that by granting this varies, there would be no substantial detriment to the intent of the requirement, the parking requirement. And there would be no substantial detriment to the public good or general welfare because although we don't meet the full level of 240 parking spaces, if you did it as a combined requirement, we do exceed the 125 spaces by an additional 43 parking spaces and that that certainly should be enough to accommodate any, any parking demands or, or impacts.

Speaker 15And then also, as was described, we can create a, a banked area for additional 25 parking spaces should a, a demand, you know, be created at some point in time. The last variance that I will be addressing has to do with the building height. This, this variance also is not related to conditional use standards. It's a bulk standard applicable to the R 20 zone. And as I was saying, the principal use within the R 20 zone are for single family homes. So this height requirement is really more applicable to a single family home. Clearly a church or a temple is going to be larger than a single family home. Those types of structures serve a special type of need, a special type of purpose. They're a gathering place. They have, they have a certain larger size inherent to just the, the, that type of, that type of use.

Speaker 15Still, even though this is larger, the building itself is only three feet taller than what the re permitted 35 foot height per single family home would be. And when you add the ornamentation, it does reach 46 feet. But this is not any different than the height differential that you would typically expect, say from a steeple on a church or a minet on a mosque or any other type of religious ornamentation on a any place of worship. So I, I think, I believe that this variance can be granted because the added height of the building and, and the rooftop ornamentation are really inherent to the use of the building as a house of worship.

Speaker 15I don't see, there'll be that this will result in any detriment to the intent of the R 20 zone, which is really geared to the height of a single family home. And likewise, there'd be no substantial detriment to the public or the general welfare. The building is scented in the property, it's set back a hundred over a hundred feet from either side. It's set back 200 feet from the 250 feet from the rear. So I think there would be very little impact on, on surrounding property. So there's no substantial detriment to the public good or general welfare. And given again, apparently beneficial nature of the proposed development, I think this variance can also be granted. And that can concludes my testimony.

Speaker 0Thank you. Any members of the board have any questions or comments? Mr. Chapman? Chadwick. Sorry, I'm done. Sean, I, I have a question. Sure. Are there any plans for solar panels particularly on the roof?

Speaker 13Yeah, we, we haven't planned for it yet, but there was a discussion about it to make it energy efficient as much as possible because of the building codes that we have. It does make it pretty close to energy efficient, but we can certainly consider that thing.

Speaker 0Okay, thank you.

Speaker 9Yep.

Speaker 0Any other comments or questions? Okay, Mr. Stall, I was gonna suggest that we carry this so I could produce a full board to you sometime in December.

Speaker 9Yeah, the only thing I had Mr. Kay, was can we close and I'm really gonna, Mr. Camille's gonna have it to answer. I mean I was hoping we could go to the public, close it, close the presentation and then the only thing that occurs in December would be a

Speaker 2Decision's fine. My concern, my concern with that is if the members who listen to the tapes or read the transcripts have questions of your professionals, then we're gonna have to bring your professionals back and reopen the public again.

Speaker 9You're right, I defer to Mr. Kinneally. He's correct.

Speaker 0Okay. I think MS has to

Speaker 9Meeting.

Speaker 2Yes, it is.

Speaker 0Alright.

Speaker 9So they could be available, we can work something out.

Speaker 2Yes. So are we gonna carry this to December 14th, 2023 with no further notice?

Speaker 9That would be my request.

Speaker 2Okay. Anybody in the public, the board only has five members this evening. The applicant is entitled to seven members. When a vote is taken on a use variance like this, the applicant has elected to carry this matter to December 14th with no further notice. The only notice you're receiving is my announcement here tonight with the hope that seven members are eligible to vote at the December meeting. The members who are missing tonight may ask questions at the conclusion of that any member of the public that wishes to speak for or against this application will have an opportunity to do so. And then the board would vote on the matter.

Speaker 0Thank you Mr. Kinneally.

Speaker 9VYO team. I just wanna tell, I'll speak with the VYO team. It's not my intention to have everybody at that next meeting. I'll, we're gonna work something out to be efficient. So on the 14th, hope I would, we'll see what happens on the 14th.

Speaker 0Well, Mr. So I could speak to the two other members that are missing and find out if they have any questions once they've listened to the transcripts and if they had any particular questions for your planner or for your engineer architect. I would, I'd let Mr. Canino ahead of time.

Speaker 9Mr. Ca I'm gonna ask that, but I thought it was presumptuous of me to suggest that, so I kept my big

Speaker 0Shut. No, a presumptuous lawyer. No. Fuck.

Speaker 9I know a couple, but I'm not gonna mention

Speaker 0Her name on one hand. Well anyway, have a great night and we'll see you on the 14th. All have a

Speaker 9Great Thanksgiving everyone.

Speaker 0You too. You too have great. Okay, byebye, very much. Let's move up to item number 15, the discussion of the adoption of 2020 zoning board, the calendar. I have no issues if anybody see us for a copy of it. All in favor of the calendar, say aye.

Speaker 16Aye.

Speaker 0Aye. Aye. All opposed? Okay, let's move on to item number 17. The adoption of minutes from the regular meeting of October 26th, 2023. All in favor say aye.

Speaker 16Aye.

Speaker 0All opposed, make a move to adjourn. Once again, everyone, thank you for your volunteering. Have a great Thanksgiving and we'll see you back here second week of December.

Speaker 16Thank you. Thank you. Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1Bye everybody. Everyone. Thank you for coming, everyone.

Speaker 0Yeah, same. You

Speaker 1Recording stopped.

Speaker 16Hey Laura. Sorry. You okay?

Speaker 1It's okay. No, you made it. We're good. Kalpesh things happen. I appreciate it very, very much. Thank you. Have a good week.

Speaker 16Okay, have a Thanks Gabe.

Speaker 1You too. Thanks. Bye.