Transcript for Piscataway Zoning meeting on November 14 2024

Note: Transcripts are generated by rev.ai and may not be fully accurate. Please listen to the recording (below) if you feel any text is inaccurate.

Speaker 0     00:00:11    Here we go. Zoning Board of adjustment meeting will please come to order. Adequate notice of this meeting was provided in the following ways. Notice published in the Courier News Notice posted on the bulletin board in the municipal building Notice made available and attached to the township clerk notice sent to the Coer News and the star ledger. Will the clerk please call the roll?  
Speaker 1     00:00:31    Mr. Weisman? Here. Mr. Tillery? Here. Mr. Patel?  
Speaker 0     00:00:35    Here.  
Speaker 1     00:00:36    Mr. Regio? Here. Mr. Blo? I thought I saw him. Mr. Haka? Mr. Mitterando? Here. Mr. Re here and Chairman Cahill Here.  
Speaker 0     00:00:50    Everyone, please stand for  
Speaker 3     00:00:55    The pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. One Nation under God, divisible with liberty.  
Speaker 0     00:01:06    Overruled. Mr. Kinneally, do we have any changes to tonight's agenda?  
Speaker 4     00:01:12    Yes, we have several changes. Base field LLP on Seventh Street will be continued on January 23rd, 2025 with no further notice. Mary Jo Barki postponed until December 12th. They must notice the property owners list, but they have a already published on switch. 51 New England Avenue is adjourned until December 12th, 2024 with no further notice and Grandview Grand Homes investment postponed to December 12th, 2024. Laura, did they notice? Yes,  
Speaker 1     00:01:55    They did.  
Speaker 4     00:01:56    So there will be no further notice required of them either. Those are all the changes that I have.  
Speaker 0     00:02:01    Thank you, sir. Let's start with item number six, which is a discussion.  
Speaker 4     00:02:07    Is Haresh Patel present?  
Speaker 2     00:02:10    Yes, sir.  
Speaker 4     00:02:12    Mr. Patel, could you explain why you're back here?  
Speaker 2     00:02:15    I would like to request to remove the condition three and allow me to like, you know, install the fence on my property line.  
Speaker 4     00:02:24    And, and what is the reason for that?  
Speaker 2     00:02:27    It, it cut downs like in a lot of my area and like, you know, that I do not have like, no enough, like no space between my backyard in, in my backyard.  
Speaker 4     00:02:38    Mr. Chairman, you may want to speak with the Mr. Ms. Rahi.  
Speaker 0     00:02:43    Jonathan, unmute. There you go.  
Speaker 5     00:02:45    Yeah, I, Mr. Chairman, if the board wishes to reconsider this, there are certain restrictions and additions, additional conditions that I would add on to this. If, if you're considering a a allowing a revisiting of this matter,  
Speaker 0     00:03:04    I I am allowing it at this point. If you could go through those revisions, I'd appreciate it.  
Speaker 5     00:03:08    Okay. So Mr. Mr. Patel, did you receive the utility mark out that was part of your conditional approval?  
Speaker 2     00:03:17    Not yet, sir.  
Speaker 5     00:03:19    Okay. So what I'd like to, and Jim, let me know if this is okay. What I'd like to do is we can allow the fence up to the property line. We have to make sure that that utility mark out happens. And I, I guess a memorandum basically saying, Mr. Patel, that you accept any responsibility and cost for repair associated with any damage to township utilities if you are installing the fence in this high risk zone, so to speak.  
Speaker 2     00:03:48    Okay? Yep. Sure.  
Speaker 0     00:03:49    Okay. So you agree to those terms, Mr. Patel, do we know how high the fence is?  
Speaker 2     00:03:54    It's a six, six feet. The regular size. The standard?  
Speaker 1     00:03:59    Yeah. That's six foot vinyl. John? Yeah, the regular residential fence,  
Speaker 0     00:04:04    We still gonna require the deed restriction.  
Speaker 4     00:04:07    I think a memorandum of understanding is enough. Okay.  
Speaker 0     00:04:10    Yeah.  
Speaker 1     00:04:10    Memorandum of restriction.  
Speaker 0     00:04:13    Okay. Any other members of the board have any questions or comments about this? Do I open it to public Jim or no? Yes. Okay. Anyone in the public have any questions or comments about this? Mr. Patel?  
Speaker 1     00:04:28    No. One chairman.  
Speaker 0     00:04:29    Okay. Close the public portion. I make a motion to accept the terms of Mr. Take away the number three condition, putting it on the property line. I second. Can I get a call?  
Speaker 1     00:04:42    Mr. Weisman? Yes. Mr. Tillery?  
Speaker 0     00:04:45    Yes.  
Speaker 1     00:04:46    Mr. Patel? Yes. Mr. Regio?  
Speaker 0     00:04:49    Yes.  
Speaker 1     00:04:49    Mr. Mitterando? Yes. Mr. Re? Yes. And Chairman Cahill? Yes.  
Speaker 4     00:04:55    Your application's been approved. We'll memorialize this in a written document and send that document to you.  
Speaker 2     00:05:01    Thank you. Everyone  
Speaker 0     00:05:02    Have a good evening, sir. Thank  
Speaker 1     00:05:03    You Mr. Patel.  
Speaker 0     00:05:04    Let's move on to item number 7 24 dash ZB dash 61 V. Mark dufour.  
Speaker 4     00:05:09    Is Mr. Dufour present?  
Speaker 1     00:05:13    He's on as an attendee. Mark, you have to unmute. He is not best with computers. We were practicing earlier.  
Speaker 0     00:05:25    Let's give him a couple seconds.  
Speaker 6     00:05:27    Okay. I am muted. Did that work?  
Speaker 4     00:05:30    Are you Mr. D before?  
Speaker 6     00:05:32    Yes, I am.  
Speaker 4     00:05:33    I need to swear you in. Could you raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?  
Speaker 6     00:05:40    Yes.  
Speaker 4     00:05:41    Okay. Your name and address please.  
Speaker 6     00:05:44    2 4 1 Grandview Avenue. The  
Speaker 4     00:05:47    Explain to the board why you're here, please.  
Speaker 6     00:05:51    I'm here to demolition my garage. It's in very disrepair. I've sort of became the executor of the property. My wife just passed away and I'm trying to clean things up and the demolition is one of the garage. It's beyond repair and I wanna take it down before somebody gets hurt and I've already gotten complaints from the neighbors and I'm trying to just make good here.  
Speaker 4     00:06:23    And the only, the only variance here is whether or not you're gonna require a paved driveway. Is that correct?  
Speaker 6     00:06:29    I've, I've paid 24 feet from the sidewalk up to stop any more stones from going out into the road.  
Speaker 0     00:06:37    Good. Jonathan, do you have any other comments to add?  
Speaker 5     00:06:46    Yes, a little bit feedback. So I think with 24 feet being, I think that's satisfactory to  
Speaker 0     00:06:55    Okay. Thank you. John, any other members of the board have any questions or comments?  
Speaker 6     00:07:04    How are you Sean?  
Speaker 0     00:07:08    I'm getting so much feedback. I don't know if that was meant for me. Yeah,  
Speaker 1     00:07:12    I,  
Speaker 0     00:07:13    Oh, come on.  
Speaker 1     00:07:14    I just, I mute  
Speaker 0     00:07:15    You muted him. That's okay. I saw that. Sorry, mark. No, no other members of the board have any questions. Let's open. It's to the public. Anyone in the public have any comments or questions about this application?  
Speaker 1     00:07:26    No. One chairman.  
Speaker 0     00:07:27    Okay. Close the public portion. I make a motion to approve this application. Can I get a second?  
Speaker 1     00:07:34    All right. Got Steve. Mr. Weisman? Yes. Mr. Tillery? Yes. Mr. Patel? Yes. Mr. Regio?  
Speaker 0     00:07:40    Yes.  
Speaker 1     00:07:41    Mr. Bla Still not here. Mr. Heka? Mr. Mitterando?  
Speaker 0     00:07:45    Yes.  
Speaker 1     00:07:46    Mr. Riley? Yes. And Chairman Cahill? Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:07:49    Mr.  
Speaker 4     00:07:50    Defo, your application has been approved. We will memorialize it in a written document at our next meeting and we'll send that document to you. Good luck.  
Speaker 0     00:07:59    Good luck, sir. I've, you're, you're muted, but yeah, I'm  
Speaker 1     00:08:02    Muted.  
Speaker 0     00:08:02    That's good. Good luck. All right, let's move on to item number 8 24 dash zb dash 55 V. Juan Torres.  
Speaker 4     00:08:11    Is Mr. Torres present?  
Speaker 7     00:08:13    Yes, I'm here.  
Speaker 4     00:08:14    Mr. Torres, I need to swear you in. Could you raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?  
Speaker 7     00:08:21    Yes.  
Speaker 4     00:08:21    Thank you. Your name and address and explain to the board why you're here please.  
Speaker 7     00:08:25    My name is Juan Torres. I reside at, I applied for a fence permit back in late spring and received conditional approval based on two conditions. One, to move the line and move the shed was on the property when we purchased it. The, we've been there for 15 purchase of the property there. The seller's attorneys represented that all permits were viable. And so when I went to apply for the, to repair my fence, which has fallen into disrepair, it was placed as a condition that I moved the fence out of the easement area and also moved the shed, which is too close to the easement area. And so I applied for a bolt variance so that I could main repair the fence and, you know, kind of keep the footprint the same.  
Speaker 4     00:09:33    And you understand that if access to the easement is ever required, you would be responsible for the cost of removing and replacing the fence.  
Speaker 7     00:09:42    Isn't that what the bulk variance would address though?  
Speaker 4     00:09:45    No. The, the bulk variance, if the board grants, it would allow you to put the fence there, but it's still, it's still an easement. If access to the easement is ever required by the township, they would tell you and you would have to remove the fence so that they could access the easement and then you could put it back after they, they were done doing whatever they needed to do.  
Speaker 7     00:10:05    To your knowledge, is there anything there? I I've ne 15 years, no one's ever come on the property.  
Speaker 4     00:10:11    And, and, and it's possible no one ever will, but since it's a recognized legal easement, we are required to re request that you assume that responsibility if it ever occurs,  
Speaker 7     00:10:23    I'd rather not, but if this is the only way it we'll get it to be, then so be it. We,  
Speaker 4     00:10:27    We don't, the only, the only way this board grants that e that variance is if you accept responsibility.  
Speaker 0     00:10:32    Yeah, we don't approve it without that, sir.  
Speaker 7     00:10:34    All right, then I, then I will live with those terms.  
Speaker 0     00:10:37    Okay. Jonathan, anything to add? No. Okay. Thank you sir. Any other members of the board have any questions or comments for this applicant? Hearing none, I'm gonna open it to the public. Anyone in the public have any questions or comments about this application?  
Speaker 1     00:10:53    No one chairman.  
Speaker 0     00:10:53    Okay. Hearing none. I'm gonna make a motion to approve this application. Can I get a second? I'll second it. Thank you. Please call the roll.  
Speaker 1     00:11:01    Mr. Weisman? Yes. Mr. Tillery? Yes. Mr. Patel? Yes. Mr. Reggio? Yes. Mr. Mitterando? Yes. Mr. Ellie? Yes. And Chairman Kago?  
Speaker 0     00:11:13    Yes.  
Speaker 4     00:11:14    Mr. Torres, your application's been approved. We'll memorialize this in a written document at our next meeting and send a copy of that document to you.  
Speaker 7     00:11:21    Thank you. Do I need to do anything else with regard to the defense permit? Do I have to re  
Speaker 1     00:11:26    Yes. Call, call, call me tomorrow Mr. Torres.  
Speaker 7     00:11:28    Very well, thank you.  
Speaker 0     00:11:30    Have a good night sir.  
Speaker 7     00:11:30    Likewise. Take care.  
Speaker 0     00:11:32    Move on to item number 9 24 dash ZB dash 56 V. Liberty Tech LLC.  
Speaker 4     00:11:38    Mr. Gel present.  
Speaker 8     00:11:41    I am present. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Good evening, rich gel appearing on behalf of Liberty Tech LLC. Rosie Clement of the applicant is here as is Mario Ndo, our architect. This is 1860 West fifth Street Block 6 0 2 lot six in the R dash 75 zone. We're proposing Mr. Chair to demolish the existing dwelling and construct a new single family home. The proposed proposed house of permitted use conforms to all bulk requirements with the exception of the minimum lot width and minimum lot frontage. This is a 50 by 200 foot lot. The board should know that the lots adjacent to us on each side. In fact, all the lots on this block are 50 by 200, so the applicant is unable to acquire any additional land to do it and to build a new house. So we're requesting relief from the lot frontage, the lot width from allow the 50 feet. If I could offer our architect so he could explain the proposed dwelling to the board,  
Speaker 4     00:12:49    Please proceed. Who is your architect?  
Speaker 8     00:12:52    Mario Nodo is here. Mario,  
Speaker 9     00:12:55    Hi.  
Speaker 4     00:12:56    I need to swear you in. Could you raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?  
Speaker 9     00:13:01    Yes.  
Speaker 4     00:13:02    Your name and address please?  
Speaker 9     00:13:03    Mario Nodo. N-A-V-E-D-O 1208 Lansdown Terrace. Plainfield.  
Speaker 4     00:13:13    Thank you.  
Speaker 8     00:13:14    Mario, if you could just quickly share with the board your education and licensing please.  
Speaker 9     00:13:19    Hi, good evening. My name is Mariota. I'm a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey. I've been working as an architect for 11 years. I have two master's degree, one master's in AC architectures and master master's in Architecture and Sustainability.  
Speaker 4     00:13:37    I believe he can be accepted as an expert witness.  
Speaker 8     00:13:39    Thank you Counsel. Mario, if you could share with the board the proposed new dwelling.  
Speaker 9     00:13:46    Sure. So we are proposing a new single family home, two and a half stories, roughly 2,200 square feet and 32 and a half feet in height. This will be four bedrooms, two full bathrooms to have bathrooms, an attached garage, an unfinished full height basement, and an unfinished attic.  
Speaker 8     00:14:17    And Mario, does this proposed house fit in with the existing structures and existing homes on West fifth?  
Speaker 9     00:14:25    Yes. The proposed homes fits within the character of the neighborhood. There are similar two stories, single family homes such as 18 52, 18 62, 18 66, and 1876 all within the same side of the street.  
Speaker 8     00:14:48    And Mario, I indicated to the board that we comply with all bulk requirements other than the minimum lot frontage and lot width. Is that correct? Correct. And you had an opportunity to review the October 21 report from the division of Engineering and Planning. Is that correct?  
Speaker 0     00:15:04    Yes.  
Speaker 8     00:15:05    And do we agree, do we not, that the fiber optic conduit will be installed along the frontage of the property?  
Speaker 0     00:15:12    Yes.  
Speaker 8     00:15:12    And there was a recommendation that we extend the garage east 1.3 feet to limit the side yard setback and provide less relief from the code. Do we agree to do that as well?  
Speaker 0     00:15:25    We we do, yes. Okay, perfect.  
Speaker 8     00:15:28    Mr. Chair, I think that addresses the engineer and planning report. I would submit to the board that we meet the requirements of a C one variance. This is a preexisting non-conforming use with an existing structure. We have no ability to expand the lot width 'cause the other properties, as I said, are also 50 feet wide. Certainly there would be no impairment of the zone plan or the zoning ordinance. Insofar as this is a permitted use and a new dwelling constructed in 2024, certainly wouldn't impair or have any negative impact on the surrounding neighbors. And would we would submit that this house, it's a pretty good looking house will be an improvement. And in insofar as this is an existing single family dwelling, I think the applicant meets the hardship requirements and we'd request the variance.  
Speaker 0     00:16:22    Thank you. Mr. And any other members of the board have any questions or comments about this application? Hearing none, I'm gonna open it to the public. Anyone in the public have any questions or comments about this application?  
Speaker 1     00:16:37    No one chairman.  
Speaker 0     00:16:38    Okay. Close the public portion. I make a motion to approve this application. And a second, I'll second it. Thank you Steve. Call the roll.  
Speaker 1     00:16:49    Mr. Weisman? Yes. Mr. Tillery? Yes. Mr. Patel Kalpesh. Mr. Regio?  
Speaker 0     00:17:02    Yes.  
Speaker 1     00:17:03    Mr. Mitterando? Yes. Mr. Yes. Chairman Cahill? Yes. I'll let the record show that Mr. Haka has joined us.  
Speaker 0     00:17:11    Great.  
Speaker 8     00:17:13    Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thanks everybody.  
Speaker 0     00:17:15    Thank you. We memorialize it to our next meeting and send you a copy.  
Speaker 8     00:17:18    Thanks very much Jim. Have a good night all  
Speaker 0     00:17:21    Night. Let's move on now to item number 1224 dash ZB dash zero nine slash 10 v Wellspring Adult Daycare.  
Speaker 10    00:17:30    Thank you. Good evening. Members of the board, board professionals. My name is Tim Arch. I'm an attorney licensed in the state of New Jersey and I'm here tonight representing Wellspring Adult Daycare. We are seeking preliminary and final site plan approval to operate an adult daycare facility. More specifically what's referred to as a day habilitation program for developmentally challenged individuals. And we're looking to do that at 3 99 Hose Lane West. You will probably remember 3 99 hose Lane West. The site was previously before the board earlier this year for the Ann Nor Academy application, which is another tenant that is utilizing that same, that same building. You were gracious enough to approve that and there were certain conditions and improvements associated with that approval. A lot of those are gonna be reflected in the plans that you see before you because we incorporated those conditions and improvements in this as well to reflect accurately what the site is going to look like.  
Speaker 10    00:18:30    One thing I do want to just make clear is that there is a distinction between a year one and year two improvements, if you remember. That was because Ann nor needed to get into that building quickly. And so some improvements were deferred to year two. That does not apply to Wellspring. Everything that we talk about tonight in terms of improvements made for Wellspring are are gonna be done for Wellspring to operate. So there's no phasing being proposed. So I just wanna make sure there's no confusion. There's a year one and year two shown there. Everything we're talking about is gonna be in place and all those improvements are gonna be made prior to to Wellspring or any, any of the improvements that are directly related to Wellspring are gonna be made before their operation.  
Speaker 10    00:19:12    The property is situated in the BP one zone where adult daycare is not permitted. So we are seeking a use variance to allow the use. You're gonna hear this is an inherently beneficial use. We have an existing variance that we're seeking, which is a side yard setback, 24.5 feet where 25 is required. That was also previously approved in the and nor application. I don't think we need to talk about a a half a foot difference all that much. And we do have a variance for off street parking 331 spaces required when factoring in all the proposed uses. And I believe 234 spaces are being proposed. But you're gonna hear that Wellspring actually utilizes vans to transport their clientele back and forth to the site. So you'll hear that the parking is more than sufficient. There are three reports that we may be referring to. One is the Tri-party staff memo, which is dated October 29th.  
Speaker 10    00:20:07    There's also a CME traffic report dated November 8th, and Mr. Chadwick's report is dated on November 12th. Again, some of the comments in the re in these reports that refer to sort of common area improvements such as improvements to the, the paving, milling and paving of the parking area, additional landscaping, a lot of those are, are the comments that are identical to the comments in the Ann nor application. What was done in the Ann nor application was a developer's agreement was entered into to hash out all the specifics of of what is gonna be done and when those are gonna be done. We are agreeing as well with Wellspring to enter into a developer's agreement just to make sure that all those conditions are complimentary and incorporated so that we're not saying something in this application that contradicts something in the and nor application in terms of common area improvements. So we certainly will agree to enter into that developer's agreement. I do have five witnesses tonight and I hear you groaning, but we will be as quick as we possibly can be and unless there's anything for me initially, I'm, I'm ready to proceed with our first witness. Please  
Speaker 4     00:21:14    Start.  
Speaker 11    00:21:15    Okay. Can I have one, one clarification? Certainly plan. The plan shows, you said there's no phasing now the relocation of the driveway and drop off lane and what have you, that's going to be done now.  
Speaker 10    00:21:30    No. So the, those are the Ann nor improvements. So if you recall from the Ann nor application right, 99 there was an initial drop off for them. There is a separate drop off area that we will be discussing when we get into engineering that is, that is dedicated to Wellspring. So that will be constructed and that will be there. There's a whole separate side entrance that's being constructed specifically for the wellspring use. Okay. So everything that's specific to Ann nor is on the timing that was discussed in the nor application. Everything related to Wellspring that isn't a common area will be, will be done and needs to be done in order for Wellspring to get in.  
Speaker 11    00:22:06    Okay. Thank you. Honor,  
Speaker 10    00:22:09    Our first witness tonight would be Mr. Ben. Ben Honing.  
Speaker 4     00:22:14    Would you raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?  
Speaker 3     00:22:19    Yes.  
Speaker 4     00:22:20    Your name and address please.  
Speaker 3     00:22:22    Ben Honick. My address is at 1111 57th Street, Brooklyn, New York. 1 1 2, 1 9.  
Speaker 4     00:22:29    Thank you. Put your hand down.  
Speaker 10    00:22:32    So Ben, you are sort of the, the person in charge of Wellspring. Please tell us what your relation is to Wellspring and more importantly, tell us what drew you to this kind of work.  
Speaker 3     00:22:41    Hi, good evening everyone. My name is Ben Honick and I'm one of the of, do you hear me?  
Speaker 4     00:22:50    Yeah, yeah. Thank  
Speaker 3     00:22:52    I'm just hearing echo when I speak. Speak. Yes. Hi, my name is Ben Honick and I'm one of the founders of Well Springs Circle. It's a rehabilitation program for adults with developmental disabilities. What brought me into this work is deeply personal. I come from a large family of eight siblings and one of my older brothers. Joel was diagnosed with cancer at a young age due to the treatments available at the time, he underwent brain surgery, which left them intellectually disa disabled. Growing up, I witnessed my parents' education as they were tirelessly to find the best therapies, education and programs to support my brother. As I got older, I took a greater role in managing this care and this experience opened my eyes to this critical need for quality supportive service for individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities. Inspired by my brother's journey, I wanted to help others facing similar challenges.  
Speaker 3     00:23:47    For ne. For nearly three years, my sister and I have been working to secure our DDD license financing in a suitable location to bring Walling Circle to life. Recently we exhibit at the LMP Networking Event and East Brunswick Bay, where we received incredibly motivating feedback from parents of adults with intellectual disabilities. Their support reinforced our our commitment and we look forward to giving each of our clients enhanced to grow and thrive in their own. At Wall Circle, we believe in the potential of every individual and we are dedicated to providing a supportive environment where each client can develop life skills, build connections, and experience personal growth. At Wellspring Circle we believe in the potential of every individual and are dedicated to providing supportive and we're offering a trust place where their loved ones will receive compassionate and valuable opportunities. We're excited about the opportunity and we're looking forward to making meaningful impact available once live and especially for those who need it.  
Speaker 10    00:24:52    Thank you so much Ben. Our second witness, Joan Marie will be going into more of the operational testimony as to what's the functioning is on the site, but Mr. Honing is available for any questions if you may have any. Thank  
Speaker 0     00:25:04    You. Tim, please proceed.  
Speaker 10    00:25:07    No questions to Mr. Honing.  
Speaker 0     00:25:11    Anyone have any questions Mr. Honing? No, you can proceed, Tim.  
Speaker 10    00:25:15    Okay. Our next witness would be Joe Marie Gudo.  
Speaker 4     00:25:18    Ms. Granado, could you raise your right hand? Yes. Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?  
Speaker 13    00:25:24    I do.  
Speaker 4     00:25:24    Your name and address please.  
Speaker 13    00:25:26    Joan Marie Granado, 95 West 16th Street, Bayone, New Jersey 0 7 0 0 2.  
Speaker 4     00:25:35    Thank you.  
Speaker 10    00:25:36    Thank you. Ms. Granado, if you can please just introduce yourself and tell us what your title is and your experience with this type of program.  
Speaker 13    00:25:43    Sure. I'm Joe Marie Granado. I'm the consultant for Well Springs Circle. I own and operate three adult medical daycare centers and one day Habilitation Center. I've consulted for over 50 centers and I'm the president of the Coalition of New Jersey, the vice chair of the National Association. And I'm also the president of the Activity Association and a national instructor for Activity Professionals.  
Speaker 10    00:26:08    Okay. So the Wellspring site, we, we identified that as a day Habilitation Center. Can you please for the board's sake summarize the overall concept of what a day? Habilitation Center is  
Speaker 13    00:26:17    Basically a day. Habilitation Center is a program for adults with developmentally and intellectually disabilities in a structured activity program. And it mainly helps improve their self-help socialization and adaptive skills through many components, especially through activities.  
Speaker 10    00:26:38    Can tell us a little bit about what those activities are that are included in the program?  
Speaker 13    00:26:43    More as therapeutic activities or, you know, physical games, special events, sing-alongs, social and fun activity programs like exercise bingo, arts and crafts and many, many more. And then in the life skills area, we do activities for money management, education, health and fitness, personal hygiene, and developmentally developing personal interests and computer and other device technology.  
Speaker 10    00:27:14    Okay. Now speaking about 3 99 Host Lane specifically, what are gonna be the hours of operation at that site?  
Speaker 13    00:27:20    Seven 30 to four 30.  
Speaker 10    00:27:22    Okay. And that includes the time that it takes to, to shuttle the clientele to the site. What are the hours that the clients will actually be spending at the center generally?  
Speaker 13    00:27:32    Oh, eight 30 to two 30.  
Speaker 10    00:27:34    Okay. And I believe that we have it set up for essentially the, the plans are set up for having about a hundred clients, but how many clients in, in reality are we gonna have?  
Speaker 13    00:27:48    Usually there's a ramp up and we start with at least 10 clients and then slowly in mid clients over time. It may take anywhere from three to five years to get to our goal of a hundred clients. God willing.  
Speaker 10    00:28:02    Okay. But we've, we've anticipated a hundred, so we fit everything out to accommodate a hundred, although we don't think that it's gonna hit that for quite some time. Correct. Correct. Okay. How is it that the clientele gets to the center?  
Speaker 13    00:28:15    Through our transport vans.  
Speaker 10    00:28:17    Okay. So you actually provide the shuttling service, the transport vans that pick them up from their, from their homes or wherever they are, and then actually drops them back off offsite, is that correct?  
Speaker 13    00:28:28    Yeah. Back to their homes. Correct.  
Speaker 10    00:28:31    So is there, at any time, do parents and caregivers drop off their clients?  
Speaker 13    00:28:36    Usually not at all. I mean, there may be occasions, but not in my experience.  
Speaker 10    00:28:44    Okay. So in those rare occasions where maybe, you know, somebody has to drop somebody off that that isn't on the shuttle, what would be, what would be the procedure for that?  
Speaker 13    00:28:53    So they would call the facility prior. We would have a staff go out to the parking lot to meet and greet the parent and the child and bring the person into the facility.  
Speaker 10    00:29:06    Okay. And generally just the, the shuttling of the, of the clientele to the site, that's all with staff involvement, staff are accompanying them the whole way, is that correct?  
Speaker 13    00:29:17    Yes, we have a whole transportation protocol set up with a transportation director and route.  
Speaker 10    00:29:25    Okay. And basically how many staff do you anticipate to have at the center?  
Speaker 13    00:29:29    So usually we're a six to nine ratio for staff and startups have about five to seven staff. And then as we grow, we add more staff to meet the needs of our clients.  
Speaker 10    00:29:41    Okay. And are these staff trained at all?  
Speaker 13    00:29:44    Absolutely. They go through vigorous training through DDD, the division of Developmental Disabilities. They have to be certified in CPR drug tested and have a background check amongst other mandatory in services and training they have to go through.  
Speaker 10    00:29:59    Okay. And what are the titles of these, of these staff individuals that are generally there?  
Speaker 13    00:30:04    Usually we have executive director, program director, activity professionals and DSPs, which are both drivers and direct support prof professionals that work directly with the clients.  
Speaker 10    00:30:16    Okay. And to be clear, is this a medical facility at all?  
Speaker 13    00:30:19    No, this was more of a social program.  
Speaker 10    00:30:21    Okay. Do the clientele ever go on outside trips?  
Speaker 13    00:30:26    Yes, usually once, twice a week with one van they'll  
Speaker 10    00:30:31    Go. Okay. So it's, it's limited to, to maybe one van it's worth of clients going out maybe once or twice a week?  
Speaker 13    00:30:38    Yes.  
Speaker 10    00:30:38    Okay. And what, what are these trips? What type of, what type of outings are there?  
Speaker 13    00:30:42    So we like to do community integration and we would bring them to restaurants, bowling parks, museums, movies, even the mayor's office fire department. We have done anything to get them into the community.  
Speaker 10    00:30:56    Okay. And the times for these trips, well, generally when are they?  
Speaker 13    00:31:01    Well, we can certainly be flexible working with the school to avoid any overlap and there's flexibility with most of these programs with their drop off and pick up. So it's usually after breakfast and the program's already started.  
Speaker 10    00:31:15    Okay. And, and on these trips off site, do they then come back to the center generally or do they not?  
Speaker 13    00:31:21    We like to try to schedule route so that like the group that comes in the van together will go on the trip and then they go, go right home after the trip so they don't have to come back to the center. Gives them more time out in the community.  
Speaker 10    00:31:35    Okay. Tell us a little, i I, in your opinion is the, is the program needed in this community?  
Speaker 13    00:31:40    This program is extremely needed to help those with disabilities and also, you know, you're, I always say it's like two clients. You have the parents and the client themselves and it gives the parents a peace of mind to have them attend a safe and secure center that their loved one will learn and grow. And I have contacted DDD myself and asked them what counties is this service needed? And they have identified our county. Okay.  
Speaker 10    00:32:09    I believe one of the, one of the questions that came up in one of the reports is how deliveries would be handled. Do you, do you know how deliveries are expected and how they'll be handled?  
Speaker 13    00:32:19    I guess occasional FedEx or UPS delivery? I, they can come to the front. There's not a lot of deliveries. I guess any activities we do, we would pick up, you know, through the community like a dollar store or activity crafts, that kind of thing.  
Speaker 10    00:32:37    Okay. One of the things that we had talked about with the Ann nor Academy when they were here is to, if there are any expected deliveries that we would coordinate that to go to the front away from any drop off areas, is that something that Wellspring would also be agreeable to?  
Speaker 13    00:32:51    Absolutely. Makes sense.  
Speaker 10    00:32:53    All right. I have no further questions of of Ms. Gudo. Okay.  
Speaker 0     00:32:57    Any other board members have any questions for Ms. Kanado? Hearing none, you can put your next  
Speaker 11    00:33:04    Couple quick questions please. The age of the clients would be what?  
Speaker 13    00:33:09    So usually it's 21 years and older.  
Speaker 11    00:33:14    Okay. And the facility, does it have any medical staff or training or is it like CPR and things of that are?  
Speaker 13    00:33:26    Well our staff will be trained in CPR and we are not regulated to have any medical staff, but if we want to we can have a nurse or social worker. But we're not regulated to have any and many facilities don't have any.  
Speaker 11    00:33:42    Do you have to screen and your client clients, I mean if there's some that have clearly medical issues just wouldn't be suited for this facility? Is that how it works?  
Speaker 13    00:33:54    Yeah, that's correct. So we would do total assessment with the support coordinator and the support coordinators like their case manager and those that we usually don't accept is a harm to themselves or to others so that they need a more structured environment that what we could provide.  
Speaker 11    00:34:16    So the age John, the age is 21 and over, right? Correct. Adults. Okay. Yeah.  
Speaker 0     00:34:22    Any other members of the board?  
Speaker 4     00:34:24    Just one question, Mr. Chairman, I heard the hours of operation. How many days a week is this?  
Speaker 13    00:34:29    Five. Monday through Friday. Thank  
Speaker 4     00:34:31    You  
Speaker 0     00:34:34    Mr. Arch. I think the board has been satisfied. Can you go on to your next witness?  
Speaker 10    00:34:38    Certainly Our next witness would be Ms. Donna Bullock, our engineer.  
Speaker 4     00:34:43    Ms. Bullock, are you present?  
Speaker 14    00:34:45    Yes I am.  
Speaker 4     00:34:46    Could you raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?  
Speaker 14    00:34:51    I do.  
Speaker 4     00:34:51    Your name and address please?  
Speaker 14    00:34:53    Donna Bullock. B-U-L-L-O-C-K one three oh Central Avenue Island Heights. Oh  
Speaker 4     00:35:01    8 7 5 I I believe you appeared as an engineer before this board previously?  
Speaker 14    00:35:05    Yes, I have for the in NOA application.  
Speaker 4     00:35:07    And have your credentials changed in any way since then?  
Speaker 14    00:35:10    No, they have not.  
Speaker 4     00:35:11    Mr. Chairman, I believe she can be accepted. Thank  
Speaker 0     00:35:14    You. Jim Can proceed. Ms. Star.  
Speaker 10    00:35:16    Thank you. Donna, if you can please just take us through the site quickly. And I know the board is already familiar with the site, so if you can please just highlight the areas that are specific to this Wellspring application.  
Speaker 14    00:35:25    Certainly I'd like to share a document and I'll go through briefly what changes are relevant.  
Speaker 4     00:35:32    Please do.  
Speaker 14    00:35:41    Can everyone see it? Yep. Yes. Yes. Oh, excellent. So I'd like to start with a, the 35 by 35 exterior patio seating area. Access from the inside of the building is from their activity area. So you leave the activity area and you can have some outdoor time. It's a fenced in enclosure. It's a patio base and if you look here, there is a dash line that's the overhead of the building above. So it'll be partially covered from the elements in the sun and the other part will be opened. We will provide landscaping buffer to beautify the surrounding area. We also have for accessibility, a four foot wide push bar gate so that if there was any reason to get out quickly in an emergency that would be available. We're providing a four foot wide walkway, which is also underneath the overhang to protect from the elements onto a sidewalk that is part of the phase one application.  
Speaker 14    00:36:49    Then we're proposing a interconnection from the handicapped accessibility way into the access way into the main entrance to the, the w sc, sorry, I'm not sure. Into the main access. We're also providing if it's appeasable to the board and per regulations of the ordinance, a sign in this general area to let people know that this is the entrance to the main reception area for the facility. And we've also talked about before the six spaces where the vans will be parking when they're not in use. We also are putting a depressed curb intermittently along the loading and unloading spaces that are now going to be reserved for the adult daycare drop off for accessibility. They're not necessarily a DA accessible ramps, although the sidewalk will be from the parking into the main entrance. Yeah,  
Speaker 15    00:37:59    Just setting it off.  
Speaker 14    00:38:01    Sorry,  
Speaker 0     00:38:02    It's, someone's got an open mic. Sorry about that. Please  
Speaker 14    00:38:04    Proceed. Oh, oh, sorry. And we have, that's, that's pretty much it as far as what, what we're enhancing, if, if we look back here, we see that when we got rid of the fenced in area, we have additional parking that has been provided along the rear property line. And we have the location of the EV spaces. We have two EV spaces here that will allow for a handicapped accessible EV parking. And then those are two of the total eight spaces that will be built up as part of this application for the eight total required. And that's, that's pretty much it. Unless I'm, I'm, you know, if anyone has any questions or anything,  
Speaker 10    00:39:00    I just, I just want to add a couple more things or a couple more questions for you, Donna. Sure. Number one, that the entrance and all of the walkways to the entrance, can you just, we will agree that those will be a DA certified, correct?  
Speaker 14    00:39:14    Yes, they will. From the handicapped parking stalls across the park parking area on this five foot wide entranceway and then into the, the reception area of the, of the use.  
Speaker 10    00:39:29    Okay. And even if the board didn't require that, the state requires that, so we have to comply with that, correct?  
Speaker 14    00:39:33    That is correct.  
Speaker 10    00:39:34    Alright. And you indicated some signage, any signage that we are proposing or any future signage that per perhaps the township would like us to, to add to the site in their discretion, those would all be to the township standards, correct?  
Speaker 14    00:39:48    That's correct.  
Speaker 10    00:39:49    Okay. I don't believe I have anything further at this time.  
Speaker 0     00:39:54    Okay. Any other members of the board have any questions? Ms. Bullock?  
Speaker 5     00:39:59    I have a, I have a comment. I don't believe staff has received this updated version of the drawing that's indicating the size of the signage, the slope of the ramps.  
Speaker 14    00:40:09    I, I do apologize. I should have stated that in the beginning, the, the initial plan that was submitted was a plan that does not show those features based on the engineers and staff review letters that we were looking at. I enhanced it as a display for tonight so that everyone was aware of where I would be talking about these items instead of trying to explain it. So I thought a picture is worth a thousand words.  
Speaker 10    00:40:37    So, so we will mark that as an exhibit, as exhibit A one for purposes of tonight and we will certainly provide that and we will provide any updated plans if this is approved as a condition of approval, obviously. Wh  
Speaker 11    00:40:50    What is the date? Are you  
Speaker 10    00:40:51    On today's date? Correct.  
Speaker 0     00:40:53    Go ahead, John.  
Speaker 11    00:40:55    That's what I was gonna ask. What is the date on that exhibit?  
Speaker 14    00:40:58    1114 2024.  
Speaker 11    00:41:01    Prepared by yourself?  
Speaker 14    00:41:02    Prepared by Matt Wilder of our office. Okay. Under my supervision. But he gets to sign it.  
Speaker 11    00:41:09    I know you're not the witness. Is there breakfast, lunch, snacks provided as part of this?  
Speaker 14    00:41:17    I do know the answer to that, but I'll leave that up to, up to the people who,  
Speaker 11    00:41:21    If you know, tell us,  
Speaker 10    00:41:24    I believe Ms. Granada is still under oath if she wants to, if she wants to chime in and just answer that question.  
Speaker 13    00:41:29    Sure. So by regulations we do not have to provide anything. The clients usually bring in their own lunch. We may provide snacks, but it's a non cooking facility so we won't be cooking on premises at all.  
Speaker 0     00:41:43    Okay. Ms. Paula, could you want share your screen please? Certainly. Sorry. No, no, no. It's okay. It's new to me. Reach to the choir. Right. Any other members of the board? Any questions for Ms. Bullock? Hearing none, you put on your next expert, Mr. Arch.  
Speaker 10    00:42:04    I got two more. Next is, is Mr. Jay Troutman, he's our traffic engineer.  
Speaker 7     00:42:09    Good evening.  
Speaker 4     00:42:11    Good evening. Do you swear the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?  
Speaker 7     00:42:14    Yes, I do.  
Speaker 4     00:42:15    Your name and address please?  
Speaker 7     00:42:17    Jay Troutman McDonough and Ray Associates. 1 0 5 Elm Street, Westfield, New Jersey.  
Speaker 4     00:42:22    I believe Mr. Troutman has appeared before this board as a traffic engineer on prior occasions.  
Speaker 7     00:42:27    Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:42:28    Will accept them. Absolutely.  
Speaker 10    00:42:30    Thank you. Mr. Troutman, if you can please just take us through your opinion as to the sufficiency of the parking and circulation.  
Speaker 7     00:42:37    Yes. Have you, as you've heard, we have, we're gonna be improving this parking lot with resurfacing and striping providing the designated parking areas for the adult daycare van activity and staff parking. Ev charging stations are being added as well. The improved parking lot will be safe and efficient for all users. In addition, a traffic signal controlled intersection is provided for all site traffic and N-J-D-O-T has issued a letter of no interest for both the school and the adult daycare traffic. Based on these facts, I conclude that the board can make a finding that the proposed onsite traffic plan is well suited for all users and specifically the adult daycare use. That's tonight's application.  
Speaker 10    00:43:26    Thank you.  
Speaker 0     00:43:29    Any members of the board have any questions? Mr. Troutman? Hearing none, I believe  
Speaker 10    00:43:37    Mr. Chen, I, Mr.  
Speaker 4     00:43:38    Mr. Chen from CME has questions?  
Speaker 0     00:43:41    Okay.  
Speaker 16    00:43:42    Yes, I have a question. I have a few questions. Mr. Troutman, do you, was was there was a, there was, there was an engine DOT access permit for the previous application sent to our office on August 28th, 2024. Does, does that, does that permit also cover this application?  
Speaker 7     00:44:02    Yes.  
Speaker 16    00:44:04    Okay. With regard to, with regard to that permit, could you, could you clarify as to like may, is there like any kind of expiration date on the permit for for that?  
Speaker 7     00:44:20    It, it's not a permit, it's a letter of no interest and  
Speaker 16    00:44:23    Oh, letter of no interest. I apologize.  
Speaker 7     00:44:26    And, and in the letter, the N-J-D-O-T specifically details both the school traffic, the existing office building traffic and the adult daycare traffic is all covered and found to be not a significant increase in traffic over the prior office use.  
Speaker 16    00:44:45    Okay. And are you aware of my traffic report dated November 8th, 2024?  
Speaker 7     00:44:52    Yes.  
Speaker 16    00:44:53    Are there any, are there any items on that chart report, on the chart report that you would not be able to comply with? Should this application be approved?  
Speaker 7     00:45:02    No, we can comply with your report.  
Speaker 16    00:45:07    Okay. Thank you for, thank you for those responses. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions of Mr. Troutman at this time.  
Speaker 0     00:45:13    Thank you. Mr. Chen. Any other members of the board of any questions or comments? Mr. Troutman? I think you can proceed Mr. Arch.  
Speaker 10    00:45:21    Thank you. We've saved the best for last. We have Beth McManus, who is our professional planner, who's right to testify.  
Speaker 4     00:45:27    Mr. McManus, can you raise your right hand? Yes. Do you swear the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?  
Speaker 17    00:45:33    Yes.  
Speaker 4     00:45:33    Your name and address please.  
Speaker 17    00:45:35    My name is Elizabeth McManus, I'm a principal at Kyle McManus Associates. Our address is two East Broad Street in Hopewell, New Jersey.  
Speaker 10    00:45:45    Ms. Mc,  
Speaker 4     00:45:45    Before this board before  
Speaker 17    00:45:47    I don't believe I have.  
Speaker 4     00:45:48    And Mr. Arch, could you have Ms. McManus go through her qualifications?  
Speaker 10    00:45:52    Ms. McManus, can you please go through your qualifications?  
Speaker 17    00:45:54    I'd be happy to. So first foremost, I'm a licensed planner. I hold my NJPP. I'm also a member of the American Institute of Certified Planners. The, so I have an A ICP as well. I have an undergraduate degree from Rutgers in environmental policy, graduate degree in city and regional Planning. I've done a lot of municipal work, also quite a bit of private work. I've testified in approximately down.  
Speaker 0     00:46:15    I think your credentials are more than acceptable. Thank  
Speaker 17    00:46:17    At this point. Thank, thank you. We can  
Speaker 10    00:46:18    Proceed. Okay, guys asked for it. Alright, Ms. Mc, if you can please, please give the board the benefit of your opinion.  
Speaker 17    00:46:26    I would be happy to. Thank you very much. So folks, I am predominantly here because we are requesting a use variance. And in order for me to have provided to provide this testimony, just for the record, I've gone through and I've, I've reviewed the application, I've reviewed the plans, zoning, ordinance, staff reports, et cetera. And as I look through the application specifically what we're proposing, the first thing I see, and I I know that this has been addressed already, is that I think we are proposing an inherently beneficial use. And as part of that, I will be presenting some alternative testimony consistent with the IKA test as opposed to the, the typical positive and and negative criteria. And so while we're not specifically listed inherently beneficial use, I think that we are still one that it provides value to the community. We're fundamentally providing the public good by providing services to those that are developmentally disabled.  
Speaker 17    00:47:24    And also as part of that, giving an important break or rest to those that are serving as daily caregiver caregivers. And so as part of that, as I said, that brings us to the point of being inherently beneficial. And let me walk you through the planning testimony. So as I said earlier, it's not the typical positive and negative criteria. In fact, it's a little bit different with a four part test. The first part of the Seek a test asks what is the public interest at stake? And I think hereby granting the use variance the board will be able to provide, well enable us to provide assistance to adults with developmental disabilities in terms of providing them social and employment skills, as we've heard previous testimony on, and as I had indicated before, also providing really valuable support to those providing care to, to the, to the clients of the daycare, giving them an opportunity to have hours during the day to conduct other business activities and perhaps work. And so ultimately for the participants in the program, for the clients, the program will enable them to better integrate into daily life and be better integrated into the community in part through the, the weekly outings that we just heard testimony on. And so given the assistance to those with disabilities as well as to some extent support to caregivers, I think that we are certainly providing significant assistance to the public and, and are able to address that our application will, will address public interest.  
Speaker 17    00:49:15    The second test for the, for the, for CA is really what are the potential negative impacts? What are the, what are, what are the substantial detriment effects, if any? And quite honestly, I don't see any, any negative impacts, much less any substantial detriment. We've heard already that there's gonna be very limited traffic associated with the property. Despite taking, taking much of this office building, we're only going to have about 25 employees and the rest of the folks on the property will not be arriving via daily cars, but rather through through busing and van services, which will also limit the traffic to and from the property. And so as a result, it's a really low traffic generating use. We've got adequate parking on the property in particular given the, the low, the low traffic use of the site. As I said, we don't have individuals, the, the a hundred or so participants driving individual cars to the site.  
Speaker 17    00:50:24    And so our property is able to easily accommodate the intensity of the pro of the use. Also, we don't have any smell, noise, light or other nuisances as a result of the use. In fact, we're really similar to an office use in that respect. In terms of aesthetics, we're not creating, not removing anything from the property that is aesthetically appealing. In fact, we're, we're making really modest changes to the rear of the building that will really enhance the, the site's usability for this particular use, but will not have any detriment to the, the view of the property from the public right of way. And so overall, given the, the lack of traffic impacts the ability of the site to accommodate our use, the lack of any other impacts or, or potential change that might have a negative aesthetic impact, I think there are no negative impacts from this use.  
Speaker 17    00:51:17    And so we're able to satisfy that component of the seek a balancing test. The third of the, of the fourth part of this test seeks to identify any conditions that are necessary in order to address those negative impacts. And while I, as I just said, I don't think that we have any substantial negative impacts as a result of our application. I will say that we are agreeing to a number of the, the recommendations set forth in staff reports. And so we are able to, through those agreements, able to further mitigate any impact from the property or from the use proposal. And so the last part of the seek a balancing test is, is just that is the balance. And so as I look at the public interest that is going to be supported by providing this adult daycare, as I look at the lack of negative impact as well as our agreement to several conditions, it's my professional opinion that, that the board is able to find in favor of the use and more specifically that we are properly addressing the balancing test by, by having such a minor, if any negative impact as a result of the application and having our positive aspects far outweigh any of those negative impacts.  
Speaker 17    00:52:39    And, and the last thing outside of, of that balancing task, the last thing I wanna c say is, is just that in reviewing the township master plan and the zoning ordinance, I don't see any substantial detriment in to that, to those as a result of this application. I think the township is, is well aware of the troubled office market. I see about a 21.5% vacancy rate in the county in the third quarter of 2024. And so we're providing occupancy of this use of this office building in a way that I think is creative and we're able to do so without creating any negative impacts. But more than that, I also see some language in the master plan that is actually supportive of our application in the sense that the 2020 reexamination report cites a specific challenge to the township, which is that adaptive reuse of existing sites and buildings need to be compatible with the surrounding land uses.  
Speaker 17    00:53:42    And so our proposed adult daycare use is not incompatible with the surrounding land uses. In fact, we're surrounded by not just not, we we're in a district that permits not just offices, but we're surrounded by a variety of institutional type uses such as the high school, the school, the Eleanor school on this property, as well as some other institutional government uses in the surrounding area. And so again, I don't think we are incompatible or creating a, a detriment to the township zone plan. And again, we're a very negative, excuse me, low intensity use that is not going to negatively impact traffic congestion. So as a result of our balancing test, which I think is clearly in favor of the positive outweighing the negative, as well as not only not having detriment, but actually having portions of the master plan that are in support of the application, I do think that the board can find in favor of the use variance.  
Speaker 0     00:54:43    Thank you.  
Speaker 10    00:54:46    No further questions.  
Speaker 0     00:54:47    Any members of the board have any questions for Ms. Mcma? Hearing none, Mr. Arch closing arguments?  
Speaker 10    00:54:56    Closing arguments is that you should please approve this application. That's all I'm gonna say. I'll leave it to you guys.  
Speaker 0     00:55:02    Okay. I am going to reserve judgment on voting this evening. I'm not gonna go to the public portion right now because I want to give my Ms getaway staff an opportunity to revise the site impact based on the drawing that was submitted just this evening and, and on Ms. Bullock. So that's where I stand on this. Can you agree with me, Ms. Star?  
Speaker 10    00:55:24    Well, one of the things I'll note is that that drawing was really just to highlight additional is, is just to highlight things that were already mentioned in those reports. We are complying with all of the recommended staff reports. So I  
Speaker 4     00:55:37    Not not that we don't take your word for it. We would like to have our professionals review it to see if they agree with your representation.  
Speaker 10    00:55:48    Completely understand. I I would say that we have been, it's been a long time coming for this application. We would very much like to go to a vote tonight if possible. But I will certainly defer to, to the board and the board's professionals if, if Jonathan feels that he needs more time to review anything or to perhaps if the, I'm sort of reading behind the scenes that maybe the developer's agreement would, would want to be hashed out prior to a vote, but well,  
Speaker 4     00:56:20    That, that certainly would help. But at this point, I can't ask Mr. Mizrahi and the other professionals to review a drawing that just appeared tonight. And it may be entirely correct that it just represents the changes that were requested, but they should have an opportunity to review it and opine on that.  
Speaker 10    00:56:40    I I will defer certainly to the board and the board's professional's opinions that that's all I have to say.  
Speaker 0     00:56:48    Okay. Well,  
Speaker 4     00:56:49    Okay. We're gonna need to announce a new date so that they do not need to re-notice.  
Speaker 1     00:56:55    December 12th,  
Speaker 4     00:56:58    I'm sorry, December 12th.  
Speaker 1     00:56:59    December 12th.  
Speaker 4     00:57:00    Okay. So this matter is gonna be carried to December 12th with no further notice by the applicant.  
Speaker 10    00:57:06    May I ask Mr. Keneally, if, if the staff is able to review and doesn't have any sort of issues, would it be possible to, to potentially get a same night resolution?  
Speaker 4     00:57:20    We, we can certainly talk about that.  
Speaker 10    00:57:22    Thank you.  
Speaker 0     00:57:25    Thank you Ms. Starch.  
Speaker 1     00:57:26    Chairman, are we gonna open to the public so we can close it out or do  
Speaker 0     00:57:29    You want No, I don't wanna until the, we get the, the final site impact. I, I, I feel let them get the full picture next time on December 12th and then we'll vote on it then. No problem. Thank you. Well, let's move on. Item number 1322 dash zb dash ten one oh, sorry, 1 0 1 dash 1 0 2 V 4 29 Bell Street, LLC  
Speaker 4     00:57:55    4 29 Bell Street Present.  
Speaker 18    00:57:58    Yes. Good evening. Eric Friends Simon Law Group for the applicant. I have a few witnesses here. They're muted right now, but they are present. I'm here. Yeah. Okay, we're ready or?  
Speaker 4     00:58:28    Yeah, we're ready. Mr. F,  
Speaker 0     00:58:29    Please.  
Speaker 18    00:58:30    Okay, thank you. We're here tonight. I represent, as I said, 4 29 Bell Street, LLC is a business doing business as central turf and irrigation supplies in Piscataway at 4 29 Bell Street. It is a irrigation supply business. It has been operating as that for a number of years, but we come before the board because they recited that they were not permitted to operate that business. So we are asking the board to approve a use variance along with a number of other variances, including some setback issues and some signage and storage issues. I have with me the, our professional riko AWA as well as a number of representatives from 4 29 Bell Street, LLC.  
Speaker 4     00:59:34    What's your first witness on?  
Speaker 18    00:59:36    Yeah, Mr. Lyle Ette.  
Speaker 19    00:59:39    Willette  
Speaker 18    00:59:40    Ette. I'm sorry.  
Speaker 4     00:59:42    Mr. Willette, could you raise your right hand? Do you swear the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?  
Speaker 19    00:59:48    Yes, I do.  
Speaker 4     00:59:48    Thank you. Mr. Mr. Willette y your address please?  
Speaker 19    00:59:55    I live in 38 Brookside Avenue, Hackettstown, New Jersey.  
Speaker 4     01:00:00    Thank you.  
Speaker 18    01:00:03    Mr. Willette, what is your title with 4 29 Bell Street or with Central Turf?  
Speaker 19    01:00:10    I am the assistant branch manager.  
Speaker 18    01:00:14    And as part of this application, you added a chance to review the, you know, requests by the town. Is that  
Speaker 19    01:00:23    Yes.  
Speaker 18    01:00:24    Okay. If you could just get into the nature of the business at Central Turf and Irrigation.  
Speaker 19    01:00:33    Yeah, so we provide materials for outdoor living. We provide materials for irrigation, salt, we do, so we provide, you know, all materials to full for full service landscaping companies.  
Speaker 18    01:00:55    Is that for commercial or residential or both? Or a mixes  
Speaker 19    01:00:59    That is for commercial and residential. You know, we, we've been doing this, we've been on that site since 1996 and we purchased the land in 2018.  
Speaker 18    01:01:16    How many employees are typically on site at, at the central turf?  
Speaker 19    01:01:23    There are six employees there daily.  
Speaker 18    01:01:26    And they're full-time employees? Yes. What are your, what are your hours?  
Speaker 19    01:01:31    Hours are from 7:00 AM to 5:00 PM  
Speaker 4     01:01:35    How many days a week is that?  
Speaker 19    01:01:38    We're open six Saturday, we're open from 7:00 AM to noon.  
Speaker 18    01:01:45    And do you have a lot of foot traffic or customers coming into that facility or  
Speaker 19    01:01:53    No, there's, there's not that many. A lot of what we do is, is deliveries. I mean, I, around, you know, five or six really come in a day. There's not a lot of people that are coming in and out. It's, it's more us delivering to our customers.  
Speaker 18    01:02:12    Okay. Do you have is or is there parking at the, at that site location?  
Speaker 19    01:02:20    Yes, there's parking for the customers when they come in.  
Speaker 18    01:02:25    No, go ahead. Sorry, go ahead.  
Speaker 19    01:02:27    I was gonna say, there's, there are, you know, there's enough parking in our parking lot for the, you know, every now and then guy, a guy will come with a trailer and we'll put stuff in their trailer. But we have enough room in our, in our yard for that.  
Speaker 18    01:02:42    Do you have enough, or do you have, do your employees do the employees park on site or offsite or, or is that usually  
Speaker 19    01:02:54    We, we have parked on the, on the street. We do park in the site as well. It's, it's not a, it's not really a set thing for us.  
Speaker 18    01:03:10    So you said typical is a six visit, how many visitors? Six or so a day or is it Yeah,  
Speaker 19    01:03:17    Somewhere in that general, general vicinity. I mean, some days could be more, some days a bit less. You know, right now there's, you know, a couple of people a day maybe.  
Speaker 18    01:03:31    And you, you said you, the company makes deliveries. How are those deliveries handled?  
Speaker 19    01:03:37    Those deliveries are handled, we have three trucks on site that we use for deliveries.  
Speaker 18    01:03:44    What kind of trucks are they?  
Speaker 19    01:03:47    There is a one Kenworth, it's a, it has a spider on the back, one of those forklifts. And there's, you know, that, that's a, a flatbed truck. And then there's another rack truck that we use. Forget what make that one is, and, and then there's a pickup truck that we use.  
Speaker 18    01:04:10    And are these trucks making deliveries consistently or is there a set times that you make deliveries or they in and out  
Speaker 19    01:04:19    Our deliveries, you know, it's, it's only during the time that we operate. So seven to five.  
Speaker 18    01:04:29    Would you say they, the trucks are come and go a lot? Or is it just, you know, not much? Oh,  
Speaker 19    01:04:38    Not that, not, I mean, you know, the guys will go out, they'll be out three or four hours and then they'll come back and then maybe they'll go out and do another short delivery after that.  
Speaker 18    01:04:49    All right. There were concerns about the outdoor storage area that you would need to install a fence. Did you have any issue with installing a, a fence around that area?  
Speaker 19    01:05:06    We do not have an issue with to install a fence. That's the, the new fence would go on the property line between us and the residential that's behind us.  
Speaker 18    01:05:18    Right. And it would have to be eight feet. There's no issue with the, the height  
Speaker 19    01:05:23    Or No, there's, there's no issue with the height. And we would put that, you know, fake grass or whatever. I don't, don't know exactly the term, you know, so that you couldn't see through it, you couldn't see into our yard from the homes behind us.  
Speaker 18    01:05:40    And the town also mentioned something regarding a landscape landscaping landscape buffer. Did you have any issue with installing that? And I guess we'll get into that with our e you know, Mr. Yeah, yeah. Awa. But any issue  
Speaker 19    01:06:00    I, I'm not sure exactly what it is that we're looking to do. There you with an eight foot fence that you can't see through. I'm not sure what purpose it's really gonna serve to have a, you know, a, a, a landscape buffer there. A any more than a hedge or something.  
Speaker 18    01:06:23    Okay. But if it was a requirement for approval, you'd have no issue?  
Speaker 19    01:06:27    Yeah, we, we have no issue with that. Okay.  
Speaker 18    01:06:31    And there was also a comment regarding the existing light poles, lights that should be placed in the lighting plan, provided any issue with the, with any of the changing of the light, tell, tell, tell me a little about the current light situation, if you know.  
Speaker 19    01:06:47    Yeah, so the lights that are out in the yard, that, that they're, that I think that they're talking about, they're are not operational at this time. And I, I'm not sure why they're not. I, I've kind of started getting into some of that outdoor stuff at the, at the building there. It's one of the reasons why I was hired. So, but we don't, we don't have a problem getting the correct lights put in there that we have to get done.  
Speaker 18    01:07:13    Okay. There's also a comment regarding outdoor storage being limited to in height of six feet, if you know what the current setup is and if there's any issue with changing that or modifying that.  
Speaker 19    01:07:30    No, there's, there's no issue with having that at six feet  
Speaker 18    01:07:38    And if there's any garbage, there's also commented, you know, clear of debris. I don't know how this don't personally know how, what the situation is, but  
Speaker 19    01:07:49    I, I have done, you know, quite a bit of cleanup. The, there, there was, along the road there was an area where over the years stuff had actually kind of grown out into the road that has since been cut back to the curb. So there, it, it's, it's a lot cleaner than it was a few months ago.  
Speaker 18    01:08:15    Okay. But is further cleanup needed or to your knowledge? I mean, or?  
Speaker 19    01:08:22    Well, for, for me there's, you know, there's some cleanup and some neatening that, that we are going to keep doing.  
Speaker 18    01:08:31    And obviously if it was a condition of approval, you have no issue finishing either the cleanup or,  
Speaker 19    01:08:38    Yes, that's conform. That's, yes, we have no issue with that.  
Speaker 18    01:08:42    On a similar note, there were, as a comment about existing pallets outside on, on the site, I guess wood pallets or, you know, those, those things you might use to stack certain items. I don't know if you could enlighten me on that.  
Speaker 19    01:09:01    So, so the, the pallets kind of come and go for us. We, we now have them inside the fenced in area to the right of the building so they're no longer out in the parking lot. And, and you know, as we get a, as we get a certain amount there, we call up a guy and a guy comes and he takes all the pallets away.  
Speaker 18    01:09:27    Okay. What's that certain amount that you would have there until you have to call your,  
Speaker 19    01:09:32    I mean, it, we, we really don't have a, a set number. You know, it's, it's probably in the range of around, you know, 30 or so.  
Speaker 18    01:09:46    Okay.  
Speaker 19    01:09:47    And, and, and that has been, you know, much more neatly stacked as well than it had been  
Speaker 18    01:09:57    Comment from the town regarding the dumpsters. I don't know where they're placed currently, but they're requesting that it be, they would've to approve a location for the dumpsters and an enclosure be placed around them so that it would be either out of the way or not within sight lines. Any issue or tell, tell me about that and if there's any issues.  
Speaker 19    01:10:22    Yeah, there, there's, there's not a lot of places that we could really, you know, put that, I obviously the town wants to have it in an enclosure so that that's not to be seen anymore. We just need to, I, i need some input as to where it's okay for us to put that.  
Speaker 18    01:10:44    Okay.  
Speaker 0     01:10:46    Well if I can interject just for a second, please. Absolutely. We have the, we have the township landscape architect here. So as soon as you get through your questions, he can address whatever questions Lyle has as to where he would like to have stuff. Put the reason for the buffer, the buffering, you know, why it's gotta be six feet piles, even though it's an eight foot fence, Mr. Rahi can expedite this a lot quicker. So we don't have to guess what testimony of your client at this point.  
Speaker 18    01:11:16    No, absolutely. I appreciate it. Okay. Yep. Thank you. Now there's also a comment regarding having a sidewalk. Tell me about the, the layout and if that can be accommodated or needs to be accommodated.  
Speaker 19    01:11:33    Well, I mean the, the sidewalk, you know, there's, I I've been going to this site now, now I haven't been employed there this long, but I've been going to this site now for close to 20 years. I, I, I've yet to see somebody walking down the street anytime that I've been there. So, and it's, it's just a, a, you know, an industrial area where, I mean, if we put a sidewalk, it, it, it's not something that's gonna benefit anybody. You know, there's, there's no path at the end at, you know, it's just railroad tracks at the end of that cul-de-sac where we are the usefulness of a sidewalk. To me, it, it just isn't there.  
Speaker 18    01:12:23    Okay. Another comment regarding fiber optic being installed and including two four inch PVC conduits. Any issue with being required to install that? Should the town need that in the future?  
Speaker 19    01:12:45    No. There's, there's no issue with installing that? No.  
Speaker 18    01:12:49    Okay. And the, I guess the last comment for you would be res replacing or repairing broken curbs if there're, you know, if, if there are broken curbs, do you know, you know, to your knowledge?  
Speaker 19    01:13:04    Y yeah, I mean I really haven't seen broken curbs there that, that I would say, you know, needed to be replaced, but I, we would do that.  
Speaker 18    01:13:16    Okay. That's all I have for the, this witness. Okay. Okay.  
Speaker 0     01:13:23    Jonathan, could you jump in here with what you've heard so far? Sure. Seems like they've covered, seems like they've covered, I would say through the 16 that we submitted, maybe a dozen, so there's four up in the air if you could address the ones that they didn't think about.  
Speaker 5     01:13:37    Sure. And just to, just to touch on a comment, Mr. Ette made, I I think a board on board fence would make more sense than a chain link fence with the fake grass in it just for sound mitigation, which was the other main reason why we were suggesting a landscaping buffer. So that way that vegetation would act as a, a sound barrier. The, the testimony is a little contradictory to our other staff members when they did a, a site inspection. In regards to the dumpster area, just looking at the, looking at the site drawing in front of me, I think there's two logical areas where we could place it at the Eastern most and the Western most entrances, that'd be a direct access for a, a front loading dump truck to come in and collect the, collect the dumpster. I think having everything at the six foot height with an eight foot fence would allow for a better screening with the surrounding areas. So I'm, I'm not sure if there's anything more specific. Mr. Chairman, you'd like me to touch on  
Speaker 0     01:14:52    The light poles? He said that they are, they're not working now, but they are going to fix 'em or install them.  
Speaker 5     01:14:58    I think, I think a lighting plan, a lighting plan, just showing the, the throw of the light not impacting the surrounding residential lots is what we'd like to see. So whether there needs to be some sort of a shield or guard on the fixture installed, we wanna make sure that that's in place.  
Speaker 0     01:15:17    Okay. Thank you. Mr any other members of the board have any questions  
Speaker 11    01:15:22    You might wanna talk? Yeah, I talk a little bit, a little bit more about the sidewalk. I believe the township policy has been either I stock or contribute to the sidewalk fund.  
Speaker 18    01:15:41    So Mr. Roulette, if you had to contribute to the, the sidewalk fund and any issue, any issue there or the township's sidewalk fund, I mean, I don't if you're saying your testimony is that there's no, well, is your testimony regarding the sidewalk, I mean there's not, you testified that there's not a lot of foot traffic at  
Speaker 19    01:16:03    I, I don't see a necessity whatsoever for that, like I said, 'cause there's no, it's going nowhere.  
Speaker 11    01:16:13    The township's policy has been to put sidewalk in all districts, meaning industrial, residential, mixed use districts, sidewalks have been required. It is my experience probably for 20 years effect. Sorry, that's been the policy.  
Speaker 19    01:16:43    I I don't know what contributing to the, you know, to the sidewalk fund, you know, would be, that's, I mean, it's something I would have to discuss with the owners.  
Speaker 11    01:16:56    Well, if, if you felt it was unreasonable, you could come back and discuss it with the board. You saw at the outset of this meeting that they approved an application and then they listened to further testimony on it and modify that condition. Okay.  
Speaker 0     01:17:12    So  
Speaker 11    01:17:13    If you, if you're looking to move forward this evening, you maybe can agree to it and if it gives you too burdensome, come back and discuss it.  
Speaker 19    01:17:24    Okay. So what is that we would have to do?  
Speaker 11    01:17:29    Well, you would agree for, to either install or contribute to the sidewalk. If you find out the, that contribution is not something that you want to agree to, then you have the opportunity to come back and discuss it.  
Speaker 19    01:17:45    Okay. All right.  
Speaker 0     01:17:47    And any other questions, John? No. Okay. Good. Any other members of the board have any questions? Mr? Yeah, I, I, oh,  
Speaker 11    01:17:55    I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Do we just specify the height of these lights, Jonathan?  
Speaker 5     01:18:01    I think, no, we didn't specify the height of these lights. We  
Speaker 11    01:18:05    Have houses, you have houses all along the back of this property and I think you ought to keep 'em down as low as you can.  
Speaker 5     01:18:14    We'll let them, we'll let them play around with the photometrics and see what, see what's gonna minimize.  
Speaker 19    01:18:20    So yeah, I mean the, the sidewalk contribution is probably the way we'd like to go.  
Speaker 11    01:18:28    Why don't you just hold on it  
Speaker 19    01:18:30    Okay.  
Speaker 11    01:18:31    Either or and then you figure out where you are.  
Speaker 19    01:18:35    Okay.  
Speaker 0     01:18:41    That's it. Anybody else on the board have any questions? Yeah, I got one, one or two questions. What type of products do you handle there and is there any of it hazardous material?  
Speaker 19    01:18:55    We do have some chemicals there. They are stored in, you know, an approved way. This is for our turf program that we have. So, and then the rest of it is, is just seed salt and, and all of those things are inside any of that, those chemicals. All of our fertilizer is star is stored inside. So there's, there's no, there's no worry of, of anything, let's say leaching out or anything like that.  
Speaker 0     01:19:32    Okay. Hey Artie, just for the record, fire Marshal, Robert Gore did approve the site plan review. Okay. He was out there taking a look at it, so it's, it's not, alright, thank you. Any other questions? Proceed Mr. Friends?  
Speaker 18    01:19:52    All right. I'd like to call my expert Mr. Sri Kawa.  
Speaker 0     01:19:59    Mr. Kawa, could you raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?  
Speaker 11    01:20:05    I do,  
Speaker 20    01:20:06    I do.  
Speaker 0     01:20:06    Thank  
Speaker 4     01:20:07    You. Your name and address, please?  
Speaker 20    01:20:09    SNA Jko DLA, S-H-R-I-N-A-T-H, JKO DLA, K-O-T-D-A-W-L-A. I reside at 54 Oakland Mill Road in Manal, New Jersey.  
Speaker 4     01:20:21    Thank you.  
Speaker 18    01:20:24    Mr. Kowa, could you explain to the board your qualifications?  
Speaker 20    01:20:32    Yeah, I'm an NJPE since 1990, sorry, since 1998. And I have testified in front of the PIs board once in my life, but I have testified in many other township related to land use zoning and planning applications. And I'm a practicing civil engineer since 1995.  
Speaker 0     01:20:51    Ation qualifications are fine. Thank you. Lets please proceed. Mr Fr  
Speaker 18    01:20:56    Thank you. Could you just discuss or tell the board a little bit more about the, the, the plan here? The plan that you, that was,  
Speaker 20    01:21:07    Yes. I'll just, if I, if you allow me to share a screen, I'll just, it's the same map, which everyone has it. I'll just talk about it. And couple of issues which was discussed by the owner's representative. I would like to put some light on it. So can I share the screen?  
Speaker 4     01:21:25    Yes.  
Speaker 0     01:21:26    Yeah, she can.  
Speaker 21    01:21:27    Okay.  
Speaker 20    01:21:53    If the board can see it.  
Speaker 4     01:21:55    Yes, you can see it?  
Speaker 20    01:21:56    Yep. Okay. So I'm just showing you basically just where the site is, which most, it's on the Bell Street 50 feet wide right of way. And if I had to go through the aerial picture of the site, just so we, everyone gets an idea, general idea that where we are and what, so we are on the Bell Street and at the kind of a, like a dead end and our property is  
Speaker 4     01:22:19    Basically, lemme stop you for a moment. Are all of the things that you are showing us on the screen part of the submission package that you submitted in connection with this application?  
Speaker 20    01:22:30    Yes. Okay.  
Speaker 4     01:22:31    This sheet did  
Speaker 20    01:22:31    Need  
Speaker 4     01:22:32    To be marked separately.  
Speaker 20    01:22:34    No, this are the one last we submitted and the time sheet has reviewed it and this is sheet one of two.  
Speaker 4     01:22:40    Thank you.  
Speaker 20    01:22:43    So I just wanna just show where the site is off of the Randolphville road, but I'll go back again to the other plan.  
Speaker 20    01:22:56    So here what we see is existing condition map, which is done by our surveyor, which basically shows our building. It's roughly 8,050 square feet building on a site. And we have like 1, 2, 3, 4 entrances and four exit basically for convenience of moving the material in and out. And we have 10 parking spaces, seven in the front and three parking spaces. Were on a site, but none of them were completely meeting the requirements. Typical requirements are there like odd and even shapes. So what we have done here is creating the space which are easy to move in and like a reverse it out. So, and also for a DA parking, if some visitor is coming to the site, the a DA compliant parking space is made so we can have a nice access to the consumer pickup area. So these are the change basically we are making with the striping.  
Speaker 20    01:24:00    So it's easy to park and kind of easy to see where do I park and come out. The other stuff, the other five parking spaces we are creating here by removing the old spaces. So altogether we are, we were tense parking spaces. Now we are gonna have a nine, but all of this nine are easily accessible, easily can be utilized by the employees as well as the customers. The one discussion we had about where to put a dumpster and I thought that this is the location we will be providing a dumpster so that can be accessed easily as well as it's away from the neighboring homes. So we would not have a problem causing any, any noise issue with the neighbors. So that was the plan we have is to put a dumpster here. And the second talk we had about lighting, so our thought was if you allow us, we will go to the site and check at the every like a point which is behind the existing homes, what is the light intensity now? And if it's, if it exceeds the township maximum allowed code, we will knock it down. We will try to put a back shield and reduce that number so we can comply with the township offsite illumination.  
Speaker 20    01:25:29    So that is our plan to submit. If the township professional agrees that is what our plan is to all these locations, we will check, we can light compared with the rules and reduce it as needed. And, and I guess that that is the rest of the questions were answered by the owner, owners like employee. So if you have any other technical question, I'm here to answer. If you have any issues which you think we need to revise on our plan, we we, we will be revising the plan.  
Speaker 5     01:26:08    I have a, I have a quick comment, Mr. Chairman. Sure. So I, I agree that the location of the dumpster is acceptable. It's a good location for it on the plan. Now how you have it drawn, a landscape buffer doesn't seem to fit in. I think that considering the inability to provide any relief for a buffer or a rear yard setback, I think having that vegetative buffer is going to be very important for mitigating the impact of the activity on the site for the surrounding homes.  
Speaker 20    01:26:48    After we, we hear the opinions from your office, I think we all, we will see that we can provide a straight, like a, like a planting. Yes. Green, giant. Our variety is in that green line I drew. So we can, we can provide a single row because we have a eight feet high fence behind it. So, and, and just in front of the fence we will be placing green giant.  
Speaker 5     01:27:15    Perfect.  
Speaker 20    01:27:17    Okay. Thank you. So thank you Jen, that, that where the residents will have a good amount of screening and some help with the sound pollution.  
Speaker 5     01:27:28    Thank you.  
Speaker 0     01:27:33    Could you please, please un do the screen, take the screen off?  
Speaker 11    01:27:41    I wouldn't question. Sure, go ahead, John. Do, do you know how tall those lights are?  
Speaker 20    01:27:48    At this moment? I'm, I would not know exactly how tall the heights are, but the, if, if this number says I talk, when we check out the existing, what, what's the lighting like illumination at all these points? If that is high, definitely we have to bring down the light fixtures down as well as we can provide a back shield to reduce any kind of like a no, like a light pollution going onto the neighboring properties. So we, we will provide to township professional what we see there and what if, if that exceeds the township requirements, we will definitely do the alteration such that it meets the requirements.  
Speaker 11    01:28:32    Well the, the manager indicated that he, he said they didn't work now, correct?  
Speaker 20    01:28:39    Yes.  
Speaker 11    01:28:40    He doesn't know why, but he, they don't work because to, to me, I mean that's all basically deciduous trees along there. So the leaves are gone. If the lights are high enough, you're gonna be looking right up at the bulbs.  
Speaker 20    01:28:57    Correct.  
Speaker 11    01:28:58    You could shield them, but you'll still be seeing that light right in your backyard. So to, to me need to get them down and whatever shield you have has to be sufficient to block the actual light source.  
Speaker 20    01:29:22    Okay. What we can do is we can provide the township professionals,  
Speaker 11    01:29:29    You, you can figure out when you submit the right revised plan, just put the detail in.  
Speaker 20    01:29:34    Okay. Okay. We'll do that.  
Speaker 11    01:29:39    No other questions, Mr. Chairman.  
Speaker 0     01:29:41    Thank you. Any other members of the board of any questions or comments? None. Could you please unshare the screen? Thank you.  
Speaker 20    01:29:52    Yes, I did.  
Speaker 0     01:29:54    Mr. Prince, anyone else to testify?  
Speaker 18    01:29:57    No,  
Speaker 0     01:29:57    Thank you. Okay. Do you have any closing arguments or anything you wanna surmise?  
Speaker 18    01:30:03    I would just say I, I would humbly request that this variance and these variances be granted, this business is operated for, as you heard, over 20 years. Really without interruption, without detriment to the public. Any changes that need to be done would be done in the, you know, for the good of the public, any installing the hedges, fixing the lights, putting the dumpsters in a proper, proper place. But I, and I think the positive criteria would outweigh any of the negative criteria in this situation. There's no, okay. No. Yeah. Thank you.  
Speaker 4     01:30:47    You're welcome. If I can just jump in here for a moment, your comment about the positive criteria and the negative criteria, you have not presented the testimony of a planner, you're seeking a use variance. I don't believe this board can grant a use variance without the testimony of a planner. So I recommend that you return to the board at a future meeting with the testimony of a planner.  
Speaker 18    01:31:12    Okay.  
Speaker 0     01:31:16    At which point we can also have a number for Mr, is it willette? Willette, yes. Willette. Yeah. Where we could find out whether contributing to the sidewalk fund compared to putting a sidewalk around the whole frontage of the property, which would be more convenient for you? You know, I'm sure it's comes down to the dollar. We can have those answers for you as well, as well as finding out how, how high the lighting's gonna be and making sure that it's not a detriment to the sur the surrounding residents. That there's a, there's a couple of, I honestly think that I'd like myself and maybe a couple of my board members afford the opportunity to go out and actually look at the site ourselves. Any questions that have arisen from whether sidewalks, curbs, that are broken or anything like that, I think it'd be a good opportunity for us to go out, take a look at the property. So we're a little bit more informed before you guys come. Before us again sometime next month. I'm assuming so. I'm not, I wasn't ready to, to vote on this tonight anyway, but I think Mr. Fringe, you should get yourself a qualified planner that could address the positive and negative criteria of the application. And then at, at that point, I think more comfortably we can move forward with a vote.  
Speaker 18    01:32:32    Sergeant, I have no issue that  
Speaker 0     01:32:34    On that. Where can we go next? But Dave  
Speaker 4     01:32:36    Looks like January 23rd is the next available meeting. December is full.  
Speaker 1     01:32:41    It's really, it's over full. Yeah. And, and January we do start at 7:00 PM but we'll touch base later. Okay.  
Speaker 4     01:32:47    Mr. Friends, do you agree to come back to this on this application on January 23rd, 2025?  
Speaker 18    01:32:55    That is fine with me. January 23rd. Yes, I  
Speaker 4     01:32:59    Did it also give you enough time to line up a planner?  
Speaker 18    01:33:01    I was going to say, even if we had December, I don't think that would've been enough time.  
Speaker 0     01:33:06    That's good. So it works out for everybody. That's great.  
Speaker 4     01:33:09    So anybody here on the application of 4 29 Bell Street, LLC, it's gonna be continued to January 23rd, 2025 without any further notice by the applicant. The only notice you're receiving is my announcement here tonight.  
Speaker 0     01:33:23    Have a good night, gentlemen. Thank  
Speaker 18    01:33:25    You.  
Speaker 0     01:33:25    Okay, let's move on to item number 16, which is the adoption of resolutions from the regular meeting. October 24th, 2024.  
Speaker 4     01:33:33    First resolution. Daniel Ola, which you voted to approve. Mr. Weisman? Yes. Mr. Tillery? Yes. Mr. Patel? Yes. Mr. O'Reggio? Yes. Mr. Duka? Yes. Mr. Ali? Yes. Chairman Cahill? Yes. Next is JRJ Fence installation, which you voted to approve. Mr. Weisman? Yes. Mr. Tillery? Yes. Mr. Patel? Yes. Mr. O'Reggio? Yes. Mr. Duka? Yes. Mr. Ali? Yes. Chairman Cahill? Yes. Those are all the resolutions I have this evening.  
Speaker 0     01:34:06    Okay. Item number 17, it's adoption of the minutes from the regular meeting of October 24th, 2024. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. Item number 18, adjourn. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay guys. Happy  
Speaker 4     01:34:19    Thanksgiving  
Speaker 0     01:34:20    Everyone. Happy Thanksgiving. And we see you in  
Speaker 1     01:34:23    A.