Transcript for Piscataway Zoning meeting on June 27 2024

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Jun 27 2024 · Zoning
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Meeting Sections
  • 00:00:00 — Meeting Opening and Roll Call
  • 00:00:53 — Agenda Adjustments and Postponements
  • 00:01:23 — Case Hearing: 24-ZB-24V (Aina Zims) 24-ZB-24V
  • 00:03:59 — Case Hearing: 24-ZB-29V (Atul Ria) 24-ZB-29V
  • 00:12:37 — Case Hearing: 24-ZB-28V (James Lang) 24-ZB-28V
  • 00:16:22 — Case Hearing: 24-ZB-21/22V (Muslim Center of Middlesex County) 24-ZB-21/22V
  • 00:45:50 — Adoption of Minutes
  • 00:46:08 — Adjournment
Meeting Opening and Roll Call AI  00:00:00 – 00:00:53
Meeting called to order with notice provided through newspaper, posting, and township clerk. Roll call conducted by clerk confirming all board members present except Bill. Pledge of Allegiance recited.
Speaker 0Meeting will please come to order. Adequate notice of this meeting was provided in the following ways. Notice published in the Coer News notice posted on the Bolton Board of the Municipal Building Notice made available to the township clerk Notice sent to the Courier News and the star ledger. Will the clerk please call the roll?
Speaker 1Mr. Weisman?
Speaker 0Here.
Speaker 1Mr. Tillery? Here. Mr. Patel? Here. Mr. Regio? Here. Mr. Bla. Here. Mr. Heka Here. Bill is not joining us this evening. Mr. Ali here and Chairman Cahill here,
Speaker 0Will everyone please stand for a salute to the flag?
Speaker 3Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Agenda Adjustments and Postponements AI  00:00:53 – 00:01:23
Chairman asked about agenda changes. Application of Face Field LLC, 1300 West Seventh Street, adjourned until August 15th, 2024 with re-notice required. First case on agenda announced.
Speaker 0Mr. Kinneally, are there any changes to tonight's agenda? Yes. The application of Face Field LLC 1300 West seventh Street will be adjourned until August 15th, 2024. They will re-notice. Okay, thank you. Alright, let's move on to first item, which is 24 dash zb dash 24 V. I can Zims. Is Aina Zims present?
Case Hearing: 24-ZB-24V (Aina Zims) 24-ZB-24V AI  00:01:23 – 00:03:59
Applicant Aina Zims seeks fence placement variance. Settlement agreement reached: 20-foot setback from Crestwood Street property line, fence alignment with principal dwelling along Azalea Place, and open lattice design (1–2 feet, 33% openness) on Crestwood Street frontage. Board approved unanimously.
Speaker 4Yes. Good evening all. I'm here.
Speaker 0Good evening. You were sworn in at the last meeting. You remained sworn in to tell the truth?
Speaker 4Yes.
Speaker 0Okay. I understand we have Mr. Rahi here with us tonight.
Speaker 5Hello. How are y'all?
Speaker 0Good evening. Good evening, sir. Mr. Ms. Rahi, can you describe the, the settlement that you have agreed to with Mr. Ems
Speaker 5Shortly? So, the day after our last board meeting, we had a conversation. Mr. Ems and I had a conversation about a agreeable solution to the fence placement. He initially was requesting 12 feet of an offset off of Crestwood Street. Our initial recommendation was 25 feet and I believe a 20 foot setback off of Crestwood Street. Excuse me. Allow me to clarify. A 20 foot setback from the property line along Crestwood Street would provide adequate distance from the road. It's approximately 25, 25 to 30 feet off of the curb. So this is a significant setback and I believe a good compromise. Mr. OEMs also agreed to moving the fence back along Azalea place to be in line with the structure of the principal dwelling and for the portion of the fence along Crestwood Street. We also spoke about the top one to two feet of the fence being an open lattice, which would provide an openness of up to 33% for that frontage.
Speaker 0Mr. ems, is that your understanding as well?
Speaker 4Yes. That's everything he said is correct.
Speaker 0And you agree to that?
Speaker 4Yes.
Speaker 0Mr. Chairman, I don't have anything else. Neither do I. Any other members of the board have any questions? Questions or comments? Hearing none, I'm gonna open it to the public. Anyone in the public have any comments or questions about this application? Laura?
Speaker 1No. One chairman.
Speaker 0Okay. Close the public portion and I'd make a motion Tomo approve this application. Can I get a second? I second. I'll second. Ms.
Speaker 1Mr. Weisman?
Speaker 0Yes.
Speaker 1Mr. Tillery? Yes. Mr. Patel? Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Blo?
Speaker 0Yes.
Speaker 1Mr. Heka? Yes. Mr. Ali?
Speaker 0Yes.
Speaker 1And Chairman Cahill?
Speaker 0Yes. Mr. Oz, your application as amended is approved. We will memorialize it in a written document at our next meeting and send that document to you. Good luck. Thank
Speaker 4You so much. Thank you, sir. Have a good one. Have
Case Hearing: 24-ZB-29V (Atul Ria) 24-ZB-29V AI  00:03:59 – 00:12:37
Applicants Atul Ria and son Nilay Ria seek variance for new shed 7.6 feet from property line (8-foot minimum required). Shed on concrete foundation; relocation infeasible. Applicant presented photos of soil removal and stone drainage installation. Engineer requested site inspection of soil remediation and drainage. Board adjourned to July 11th, 2024 for township inspection.
Speaker 0A good night. You too. Take care. Let's move on. I I number 6 24 dash zb dash 29 v Atul. Ria is Atul Ria present. We see your hand went up. Yeah. You muted. We can't hear you.
Speaker 1No, they're not muted. We just can't hear them. Oh.
Speaker 6Can you guys hear us now? Yes.
Speaker 1Perfect.
Speaker 0Yes we can. Is I see two people here. Are you both gonna be testifying?
Speaker 6Yes. That's Oul Ari, that's my father. I'm ni Aria. I'm his son.
Speaker 0And you're gonna speak for him.
Speaker 6We can both attest to this case. I'm just stepping in, in case he has any issues with the language barrier.
Speaker 0That's fine. Could you each raise your right hand?
Speaker 6Sure. I
Speaker 0Do. You swear that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?
Speaker 6Yes. Yes.
Speaker 0Okay. We have Atul Ria and your name Sir
Speaker 6Nilay can
Speaker 0Spell please.
Speaker 6N-I-L-A-Y.
Speaker 0Thank you. You could put your hands down. Could one of you explain to the board what you'd like to do here?
Speaker 6Sure. So we built a shed in our backyard to replace two of the existing shed structures that were structurally unstable. We went off eight feet off the fence line and later after getting the survey done, we learned that the fence line is not at the property line. So from the property line, the offset is 7.6 feet on the rear instead of eight feet. Which is the reason why we're asking for this variance. If unless anybody has any objections, we would like to keep the structure as wrecked as it is a new structure that was built on concrete foundation. So moving it is not really a feasible solution here.
Speaker 0Mr. Chairman, I believe Mr. Rahi has a a report on this matter as well. Yes. Miss, miss Jonathan, I'm gonna call you if that's okay. Would you please proceed with your findings?
Speaker 5Of course. So we, we agree that the shed is extremely close to the property line. It's less than half a foot. However, at this property, there was evidence of soil being brought in without the proper permits being obtained. So we would like to see some sort of grading plan, landfill permit documentation that the township requires for these sort of activities.
Speaker 6Yep. So to address the soil issue, we did have whatever was brought in, removed and brought back to the, the preexisting grades. I can share my screen if you guys, if it allow me one sec.
Speaker 0Yeah, I think we'd like to see that.
Speaker 6Yep. One second.
Speaker 7Well, while we're doing that, I think the variance is for six inches on the shed, John, not the six inches from the property line, if I'm correct?
Speaker 6Correct. So right now, survey show
Speaker 7Survey shows seven foot six inches.
Speaker 6Are you guys able to see the photos I'm sharing? Nothing.
Speaker 0Nothing came up yet, sir. No,
Speaker 1You could hit share screen on the bottom. You should be able to get it up.
Speaker 6Yep,
Speaker 1We still see you guys.
Speaker 6Okay, there we go. There's the folder. And here. So I have eight foot, two inches from the shed to the existing fence. There's
Speaker 7No, there's no picture at this
Speaker 0Point. Yeah, we still don't see your picture.
Speaker 6Oh, I see. Okay.
Speaker 1Aha. Okay,
Speaker 0Here we go.
Speaker 6All right. So from the, from the shed to the existing fence is eight foot two. However, the property line from the shed to the property line is 7.6 feet. Our understanding was that the fence was built on the property line. So we had the minimum eight feet, but that's regarding that rear offset. This is the rear of the lot. And then these are the pictures of me removing the soil that was brought in. I'll circle through them and then you guys can tell me if you'd like to see any one of them. Again, existing sh property also had a stone bed along the back, which stopped somewhere along this point where the, the preexisting sheds were. However, I extended that stone bed to the, all of the rear of the shed to prevent any sort of drainage issues that may be caused to the neighboring properties. So all of the soil that was removed was, this is ex this is before it was removed. So we placed a filter fabric stone as a, as a source of water, a source of tool to control the water runoff. And this shows that all the soil that was brought in has been removed to bring it back to its preexisting grade.
Speaker 0Are you satisfied, Jonathan?
Speaker 5Is any, is any portion of that stone area still open and able to be inspected?
Speaker 6This stone area?
Speaker 5Yeah. The, the depth of the, how deep is that stone?
Speaker 6Yeah. It's not open, but we can dig it, dig it up if you'd like. Compare the picture. Yeah. There was one picture which showed it though. The initial one that I was sharing.
Speaker 7Lemme ask you a question. Why did you bring the soil in the first place?
Speaker 6So we were having Dr. Puddles in the, in the back port, this portion of the, the yard. So we brought it in to level it off to, to get rid of those dips in the ground every time it rained or that there was any sort of precipitation we would have. Why didn't,
Speaker 7Yeah, why didn't you just take and move some of the soil around on your property? It looks like the whole yard really was needed, you know, research re revegetation, I guess is the best way to say it.
Speaker 6Yeah. This what you see, this is preexisting vegetation. Anything that you see in this area was worked through after,
Speaker 7But so your test, your testimonies, the amount of soil you brought onto the site has been removed?
Speaker 6Correct.
Speaker 7Okay.
Speaker 6And I believe this is about eight inches or so of six to eight inches of stone bed that be installed. Six inches. Six inches. Six. Yeah.
Speaker 5Okay. Some of the concerns brought forth by surrounding property owners was the change in the drainage condition. Assuming that the stone was installed at a similar grade to what was existing six to eight inches of stone, I believe would be sufficient for a drainage channel.
Speaker 6Yep.
Speaker 0Mr. Rahi, is this something you would want to inspect before the board makes a decision?
Speaker 5Yes.
Speaker 0So I think Mr. Chairman, we should probably adjourn this matter so that the township can go out there and take a look at the work that's been done and then come back at a future time and have a report from the township and see what we should do. What timeframe should I be looking at August again?
Speaker 6No,
Speaker 7We can probably do July.
Speaker 0We can, we can have the someone from the township go out that, that quickly. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Yeah. All right. So
Speaker 1Jonathan spec.
Speaker 0So Mr. Canaria, would you be agreeable to adjourn this matter so that the township can come out and inspect the work you've done?
Speaker 6Yes. We're okay with that.
Speaker 0Good. Okay. And what's the date of the July meeting?
Speaker 1July 11th. Mr. Kinneally.
Speaker 0So anybody here on the canter matter, this could is going to be adjourned until July 11th with no further notice by the applicant. The only notice you're receiving is my announcement here tonight.
Speaker 6Alright. Is there gonna be a link for me to join again on July 11th?
Speaker 1Yes. Yeah, when I send the links out for everybody else, you'll be on the link again and I'll put you back on the agenda.
Speaker 6Got it. Sounds good. Thank
Speaker 0You. Have a good night, gentlemen.
Speaker 5Thank you. Thank you.
Case Hearing: 24-ZB-28V (James Lang) 24-ZB-28V AI  00:12:37 – 00:16:22
Applicant James Lang seeks variance for second-level addition at 13 Kate Terrace. Engineer confirmed variances pre-existing due to lot size; building height estimated 33 feet (under 35-foot limit). Condition imposed: all downspouts directed away from neighboring properties. Board approved unanimously.
Speaker 0Let's move on to item number 7 24 dash zb dash 28 v. James Lang is James Lang present. Laura, do you see James Lang?
Speaker 1I can't see anything. Can you share unshare your screen? Mr. Yes.
Speaker 6I'm, I'm looking for it.
Speaker 1Well if you just log off, it'll get rid of it
Speaker 6There. All right, have a good one.
Speaker 1Thanks. You too.
Speaker 0Have a good night. Good.
Speaker 1There we go.
Speaker 0I don't see a name up here like that. You wanna jump in? Double back, see if he joins us later.
Speaker 1He was here he is. Here
Speaker 10He is on.
Speaker 11Is it potentially that Samsung that they're trying? Yeah, they're waving. It looks like
Speaker 1There they are. You're muted again. You have to unmute yourselves.
Speaker 9Hello? Yes, we're here. Perfect.
Speaker 0Okay. Is this Mr. Lang?
Speaker 9Yes.
Speaker 0Okay. We're here on the matter of James Lang. 13 Kate Terrace.
Speaker 9Yes.
Speaker 0Mr. Lang, could you raise your right hand? Do you swear the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?
Speaker 9Yes sir.
Speaker 0Your name and address please?
Speaker 9James Lang. 13 Kate Terrace, scattering New Jersey.
Speaker 0Could you explain to the board what you'd like to do here?
Speaker 9I just wanna put a second level on the, over to one side of my house to have a, a more living space.
Speaker 0Mr. Rahi, I believe most of these variances are preexisting in nature due to the size of the lot.
Speaker 5That is correct.
Speaker 0And you have a report in this matter?
Speaker 5Our recommendation is to ensure that all the downspouts are directed away from neighboring properties to prevent any drainage or flooding issues.
Speaker 0And Mr. Lang, are you agreeable to do that?
Speaker 9Yes.
Speaker 0That's all that I have. Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Any other members of the board have any questions for this application or comments?
Speaker 7I I have one comment. Gotcha. The architecturals don't show the height of the building. It doesn't look like it's over 35 feet, but there's no scale to to verify that. Does the applicant know how high the building is to the peak?
Speaker 0We think it's 33.
Speaker 7We think the problem is, if you didn't think correctly and you get it built and it's over 35, you you, you have a risk there, meaning it's variance. Is there any way that you could be more than I think,
Speaker 1Well, Mr. Chadwick, that would be caught when they submit their building permits, they would get denied if they're over the 35 feet.
Speaker 7Yeah. I'm just trying to make sure we don't have big problem.
Speaker 1Well, if, if they mess up their plans and they have to come back to the board.
Speaker 7Okay. Alright.
Speaker 0Any other members of the board?
Speaker 7We'll go with that.
Speaker 0Okay. Hearing none from the board, been open to the public. Anyone in the public portion have any questions or comments about this application?
Speaker 1No. One chairman.
Speaker 0Okay. Close the public portion and I'd make a, a motion to approve this application.
Speaker 7I'll second
Speaker 0Thank you. Please call the roll.
Speaker 1Mr. Weisman?
Speaker 0Yes.
Speaker 1Mr. Tillery? Yes. Mr. Patel? Yes. Mr. Regio? Yes. Mr. Bla? Yes. Mr. Heka? Yes. Mr. Riley? Yes. And Chairman Cahill? Yes.
Speaker 0Mr. Lang, your application's been approved. We'll memorialize it in a written document at a future meeting and we'll mail that document to you. You'll need that document to get your permits. Okay? Thank you very much. Have a good night sir. You too. Have a good night. Okay, item number 8 24 dash ZB dash 21 slash 22 v Muslim Center of Middlesex County.
Case Hearing: 24-ZB-21/22V (Muslim Center of Middlesex County) 24-ZB-21/22V AI  00:16:22 – 00:45:30
Muslim Center of Middlesex County, 1000 Hose Lane, seeks digital LED sign variance to replace existing static sign. Proposed 9-foot high, 24-square-foot sign for visibility to southbound traffic. Applicant agreed to: no flashing/strobing, no commercial advertising, limited animated content on special occasions only, and illumination ceasing at end of final daily prayer (Isha, varying by lunar calendar). Board requested detailed specifications on message frequency, illumination hours, and special occasion count, and deferred decision pending site visit. Matter carried to August 15th, 2024.
Speaker 11Good evening. Members of board professions? Name is Tim R I'm sorry I'm, you can hear me right? You
Speaker 1Are echo. We're gonna get feedback.
Speaker 11I think there may be somebody else that was speaking as well.
Speaker 0Everyone else should be muted please
Speaker 12Before you go ahead Tim. This is, I have a conflict and I won't be voting on this application.
Speaker 1Yeah, Mr. Ali has to recuse himself.
Speaker 0Thank you Ms. Doley.
Speaker 1Thank you.
Speaker 11Good evening members, the board. My name is Tim Arch. I'm an attorney license in the state of New Jersey. I'm here representing Muslim Center of Middlesex County 1000 hose Lane West. We're here tonight seeking bulk variance relief for a sign, a digital sign to be erected at the the Muslim Center. There's already an existing sign that's there, a just a regular sign that was granted approvals and a previous site plan application for that location. We just want to basically modernize and update that existing sign to a new digital sign similar to what the Piscataway Community Center has down the street. The YMCA has that really nice digital signage that's out front. And so the Muslim Center wants to have something similar. We do. I do have two witnesses tonight. I have Sharif Ali. He is our engineer. He will take us through sort of the location of the sign and the relief that we're asking for.
Speaker 11Then I also have Dr. Safi Ula, who is a representative of the Muslim Center. He is here for any questions and to address any comments of the board. We do have two staff reports. One joint staff report, I'm gonna call it, signed by three members of the, of the Piscataway staff. And that is, oh sorry, I picked the wrong one to look at first. The joint one was from June 17th, 2024. Dated June 17th, 2024 from three members from Dawn, her Dawn Corcoran, Joseph Herrera, and Jonathan Ms. Rahi that we will address at the end of the testimony. And there's also a report from Mr. Chadwick that is dated June 21st. So without any further ado, I would ask that Mr. Sharif Ali be sworn in so he can provide testimony.
Speaker 0Mr. Ali, could you raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?
Speaker 13I do.
Speaker 0Your name and address please.
Speaker 13Sharif Ali. It's a LY 7 5 7 Ridgewood Avenue, Amer Tech Engineering North.
Speaker 0I believe Mr. Ali has been accepted as an expert engineer for the board on prior occasions. Mr. Watts, you can proceed.
Speaker 11Thank you Sharif. If you can, if you can please just essentially orient the board to where the sign is located and what it is that we're asking for tonight.
Speaker 13Yeah. Laura, would you allow me to share the screen? Oh, I mean, cool. Yeah, we make it easy. Go
Speaker 11Ahead.
Speaker 13Yeah, so the, you you heard that we, the Muslim center of Middlesex County 1000 lane, just for the record, it's lot 9.05 in block 1, 1 2, 0 1 and we happen to be in the R 15 zone and our major frontage is on hose lane southbound. So what you see on your screen is this is joseline southbound. So if you proceeded from north and you will see quite a bit of elevation rise and as you proceed up to the entrance of the facility, you will be, that's the main entrance. We also happen to have a secondary entrance on post lane west. So so many hose lane here. So the main entrance and the location of the sign obviously need to be located by the main entrance. And you heard Tim talking about there is already an existence sign and if you're driving on hose lane, you'll be, you'll probably not see the sign.
Speaker 13It is pretty much because the elevation drops, it hides the signs, you'll see the table of the sign. But as you get closer, you may see the sign as you get in. So people that the frequent, frequent visitors to Tomas, they know exactly where is the location and they don't bother with the sign, but it's not really in the right place. So the sign or the subject of this application will be located at the highest elevation nearby the right of way, which is a line that you don't see out on the ground, but you'll see the curb line. So we're probably about 20 feet from the curb line, the ordinance requirement as far as assigned location. And that is the variance that we have is that 25 feet from the property line, which is this line here, which is about 10 feet behind the curb.
Speaker 13That will put us in a driveway or as you get closer, as you get in, it will be pretty much on top of the guide rail, but you'll be again on about four feet elevation drop. So we need to put the sign a lot higher and you will be seeking another variance. So we, that's the reason we selected that area just to stick with the location variance. But we also, because the view as you're driving on Halsey on hose lane going south and with the elevation rise, you need to see the sign from a distance. So it's a safety for the motors that they traveling on hose lane. So that is the reason for the location, the sign. As far as the area meets a requirement, the requirement is 32 square feet. What was granted, and by the way, the location and the distance were granted previously, not in that particular area, but as far as the distance from the right of way.
Speaker 13So that was already granted. The, as far as the area was approved, previously 30 square feet, we are now 24, so we're smaller, we're still meeting the requirement. So we are in compliance and as far as the height was granted nine feet and we stick in with the nine feet. So the sign is nine feet high and we are in compliance. What's permitted is 10 feet. So, so that's what, what that's what I have as far as the location of the sign, the variance that goes along with the sign. I see there is two reports here. As Tim mentioned, one of the items is the landscaping definitely will do a nice bouquet of low shrubs around the sign and will enhance that entrance, which will be also good for the facility. So that is not and issue at all and we'll comply with that. And as far as assignee, HERDA is a digital LED that will have images and will dis display the images and we can talk about the frequency of the images and the hours.
Speaker 11Yes. And and sorry to interrupt Sharif. Yeah, we'll get into that with, with Dr. S's testimony. I just wanted direct you to, I think you've addressed the landscaping. We will comply with that certainly. Yep. And I just want to note Mr. Chadwick's report, his first comment was that the proposed sign is well buffered from the adjoining home to the south. So I just wanted to to mention that
Speaker 13That is true. If you drive out there from the beginning of the entrance by the right of way, there is a six foot high solid white fence that is hugging the, the curb line and the guide rail. So in addition to that, there is another fence behind it too. So, so the six foot high pretty much is giving a good screening to the neighbors. Yes. And also the orientation of the sign is not oriented to the neighbors is oriented exactly. I would say northeast. So it's hitting pretty much the two lanes as he approached in the facility.
Speaker 11Thank you. I have no more direct questions of, of Mr. Ali.
Speaker 0Any other members of the board have any questions for Mr. Ley? Hearing none, you go again, Mr. Arch, your next witness.
Speaker 11My next wi witness would be Dr. Saffy Ula. And if you can stop sharing your screen when you get a chance. Yes, thanks
Speaker 0Dr, could you raise your right hand? Do you swear the testimony you're about to give read the truth? Yes sir. Yes sir. Thank you. Your name and address please?
Speaker 14Sfi Ola to Carpenter Road, Pisca, New Jersey 0 8 5 4.
Speaker 0Thank you.
Speaker 11Dr. Sfi, you are familiar with the the Muslim Center. If you can just let everybody know what is your, your role with the Middlesex County Muslim Center?
Speaker 14Yeah, so I was the secretary and the president and I'm the, the leading the expansion committee now.
Speaker 11Okay, excellent. So I wanna just go through some of the comments that we got on the, the report and, and get some answers to 'em. First of all, in terms of the landscaping, you agree that we agree to to attractively landscape, the the sign, correct?
Speaker 14Definitely. We'll work with Mr. Jonathan, like we worked with Mr. Henry before.
Speaker 11Perfect. One of the, one of the comments that Mr. Chadwick had mentioned is he said restriction on any sort of flashing or s strobing effects. We would certainly agree to that, that we would have a restriction on any flashing restriction, correct?
Speaker 14No, no flashing, no, just for messages. Mostly for messages just to say where we are and then occasionally like Ramadan and some festivity, things like that. Maybe very small clips of the activities and services. Nothing more than that.
Speaker 11Okay. So one of the, one of the comments that Mr. Chadwick had on his report was he was suggesting that if, if this were approved, that a condition would be one no flashing, you know, flashing or s strobing, which we certainly can agree to. He also indicated no, no animated images. Now what you just indicated was that we would like to keep the flexibility to occasionally on times such as Ramadan that you just said to maybe show a brief clip of, of services or something along those lines. Similar to how the, the, the YMCA and the Piscataway Center occasionally has some moving images as background images showing people playing basketball, things along those nature in that nature. Correct.
Speaker 14Very, very limited in spec special occasions? Yes.
Speaker 11Okay. And these, and these would be, these would be short clips. They would, you know, you're not showing a movie out there. This isn't, you know, this isn't, you know, movie night in the summer or something like that. These are just short little clips to, to advertise what's happening at the, at the center.
Speaker 14Yeah. Similar to you'll see in different churches, like if we have a service, we have a health screening, if we have a, just a open house or something like that, some ethnic foods, things like that just to announce to our communities at, at large, not just the Muslim communities. So whatever is happening, it's very short on spatial occasions.
Speaker 11Okay. And one thing that I want to, I don't think this was mentioned in the reports, but one thing that we can say is this is not gonna be used for any sort of commercial advertising space or anything along those lines, correct? No,
Speaker 14We, we are not using it for that.
Speaker 11No. Okay. Per excellent. One of the questions that we also had in the, in the report was that we should talk about the hours that the sign will be illuminated. One of the, one of the things that you were telling me, and correct me if I'm wrong, Dr. Saffy, is that your timing for, for prayer changes throughout the year, and that's based on the lunar calendar. It's based on when the sunrise and the sun sets and your fifth prayer of the day, which I believe is called Isha. Is that correct? Yes,
Speaker 14Correct.
Speaker 11Okay. Your fifth prayer of the day can occur in the, in the late summer months and the early fall can occasionally occur where it begins after 10 o'clock and doesn't end until sometime after midnight. Would that be accurate?
Speaker 14That that's accurate? So the last of the service in summer months, because if you allow me two things. First major events are on lunar, similar to like our friend, Jewish friend and Jewish faith and others, it's lunar, it's not according to sun. So it's very difficult to put a, and the second thing is that it's also the length of the day. So summer, some of the summer months and maybe fall month will be that it could be that late. Most of the year we are done eight, 9:00 PM the center is done unless it's Ramadan. So,
Speaker 11So even before, even before 10 o'clock at night, yeah,
Speaker 14We're done
Speaker 11Time during the year. Your, your final prayer is, is done at that point, correct? Yeah.
Speaker 14And we will agree to, to say, if, to stipulate here that we'll close it after the last service.
Speaker 11So we would agree to, if, if the board were to look approvingly on this, we would agree to a condition that the sign would, would stop being illuminated at the close of the final prayer every, every day.
Speaker 14Yes. The, we, we will agree to that. If the board wants us to do that, we'll do.
Speaker 11Okay. Dr. Safi, is there anything else that you want to put on the record that you want to testify to before we, we ask for questions from the board?
Speaker 14No, so the only thing I think Sharif already mentioned, we already have a sign there and in our previous application we did ask for changes to that sign. The only thing which was not mentioned was the digital and the modern form, which we, which we believe will benefit the community more.
Speaker 11And a lot of, and and a lot of that is based on the sign that's right down the street. That is quite frankly a a a gorgeous and, and, you know, wonderful addition to the, to the community. Correct.
Speaker 14Yeah. It'll look nice like YMCA when you go there, it's pleasing to the eye. It'll be very similar. The other thing is when you're coming on southbound after the signal, you don't have an opportunity to see it. So if a new person is looking for the center, they don't see it currently very easily. As Sharif said, this will help him to see that. Thank,
Speaker 11Thank Dr. Saffy. I have no further questions of Dr. Saffy. I don't know if the board has any questions.
Speaker 7Any other members of the board have any questions or comments? I have two quick questions please. The height of the sign is this is a brand new sign, the fencing that's in there and the landscaping, I think shields from the adjoining homes. But is there any reason you need to have it high, nine feet high now that you are right up at the crest of the hill?
Speaker 11I'll defer to, to our engineer, to Sharif. I'm certainly not one to make a
Speaker 7Decision like that. No, I agree. I agree totally with Sharif's testimony. That's the best location for it. It just doesn't seem to need to be nine feet high any longer.
Speaker 13Yeah. So the nine foot high is from the ground all the way to the top of the sign. Right. But most likely the images will be disciplined maybe within, I would say within 46 feet above the ground. So
Speaker 7Are, are you gonna have poles going above it?
Speaker 13N no, the, the, no, no, it's not going above it. The the poles has shown on the image that I have on the plan is pretty much flush with the top of the sign.
Speaker 7Okay, so the image will be nine feet in the air,
Speaker 13The top of the, the the frame itself? Yes.
Speaker 7Okay. You, you, you don't think it'll be as, I mean it just seems to me whether it's eight feet high, seven feet high, the visibility will be the same.
Speaker 13Keep in mind that the, the lower bottom of the sign will be, it's four will be about five feet above the ground. So you, you, you may lose some of the images at the bottom.
Speaker 7Alright. The other question I think is for the, I'm, I'm sorry I didn't exactly Yeah, how you, I didn't get your name. Is is the messages, are you going to scroll them or are they gonna be a fixed picture and then you change them occasionally so things will change like all the time. Will they continuously change or will they sit there and then two hours later you do a different message? It'll change. I don't know the frequency because it, people will, if there's any guidelines that the township wants, we'll take it to consideration. But it'll be similar to any other places that there
Speaker 14Will be changes. Now how frequent is it? Hour, 30 minutes, 10 minutes.
Speaker 7But they're not gonna be flashing a chat or no, no,
Speaker 14There's no flashing. No, no, no. Nothing.
Speaker 7And it's not like it's reading. You gotta read like one of the signs. Okay.
Speaker 11It's not gonna be like a stock ticker. Right. It's not gonna be continuously going.
Speaker 7Okay. The other, the other thing is the technology of these signs, they dim those signs during the night, but you, you are gonna shut it off as opposed to dim it. Correct.
Speaker 14We will prefer dimming it if the township has low issues be, and the reason being is the point I was making is that after, if the sign is useful as an identification as well, dimming at least will say, okay, the center is here. If you completely shut it off, then it, it'll have no sign.
Speaker 7Why don't I offer this? You, you can dim it and put your name up on it just like a
Speaker 14Baseline.
Speaker 7We would be agreeable
Speaker 14That we'll agree to that. No problem. Yeah,
Speaker 7I think that would make more sense. Mr. Chairman,
Speaker 0I appreciate the input there. Any other members? No questions. Mr. Mr. Chairman? Yes.
Speaker 5My apologies. I just wanted to mention if, if I wanted to ask rather if there was a letter of approval from the DOT, just seeing how hose lane is a state road.
Speaker 11I will have to, I'll have to defer to Mr. Ali if there was a, if, if there was a DOT approval from the previous site plan application.
Speaker 13I'm not sure. Yes. So we are talking about Rudy team, but what would be the concern as far as DOT? We not within the DOT right of way. We off the DOT right of way. So I, my life practice, I have not heard of going to DOT to get a approval on a sign or get their input on a sign.
Speaker 11Is is hose lane a state roadway? I I didn't think it was.
Speaker 13Yeah, it's still, it it is still Rudy Teen. Yeah, extension of Rudy team.
Speaker 5Okay. So there's, if there's no letter of approval or exemption needed from DOT, then there no issue to proceed. But I wanted to ask the question.
Speaker 0Thank you Johnson.
Speaker 13Yeah, sure.
Speaker 0Mr. Arch, at this point I'm gonna ask that we put this, this vote off, carry it to the next month. I'd like to have an opportunity to go out and look at the, the site location and I'd like to afford that opportunity to the rest of the board members and Mr. Chairman, we could also request that the applicant supply us with additional information such as they talked about special occasions. Perhaps they could give us a number or a, a a, some parameters on how many we're talking about. Also, they're talking about scrolling the message and we're saying it's not gonna be a ticker tape, but it might be every 30 minutes. It might be every hour. What are we, what are they proposing and the hours of illumination. I, I heard that summer and I, I'm, I'm thinking September or August and September might be later. Perhaps they can give us some specifics on that so that the board has some concrete information to make a decision on. And for instance, I'm the board attorney, I'm gonna have to put this in a resolution and I don't have a lot of specifics right now.
Speaker 11What, what what I will, what I will say, and I I appreciate the comment Mr. Kinneally, what I will say in terms of the hours of operation for keeping them illuminated, I think what the, what we indicated that we would certainly agree to is that any sort of either dimming or, or, or ceasing of the illumination, whatever the board's preference would be, would occur at the end of the, at, at the same time as the end of the daily prayer, the Isha prayer. And the reason
Speaker 0That, and, and, and I understand that and I have no problem with that, but the, the end of the daily prayer, there has to be some predictability. I think every, I I think they talked about, you know, summer or late summer that's approximately the same time every year. And just give us an idea of what that hour's gonna be. Yeah, I don't think we we're gonna hold your feet to the fire if you're off by a day or so, but you have to give us some type of parameters. I believe that that's, that's a good point, Jim. Thank you.
Speaker 11So just so, just so I can just, so for clarification on my point, so I can also direct my client. Are you suggesting something like, you know, during maybe these three months x time to X time is what we would generally consider? The, the issue that the, the only issue that that brings up is that every year, my understanding is every year in the Muslim calendar, the, the day everything goes back basically 10 days and continues to do that each year, each subsequent year. So at a certain point those that three month span is gonna change is gonna bleed into another three month span. So there, there's a, there's di
Speaker 0While I, while I don't com I, while I don't claim to be an expert on the Muslim calendar, I do know the lunar calendar and the lunar calendar resets every so often. So perhaps if you can just define that time period, we could put that in a resolution.
Speaker 11Dr. Affy, do you, you you hear what the board is saying?
Speaker 14Yes. So do we have to have for next hearing or is this something that we can do pending approval? We'll work with, with Jim, give them to his satisfaction so that he can put it to resolution. Will
Speaker 0That be fine? Well, the, the, the board would also like to do a site visit because you're talking about relocating the sign. So they'd go like to go out there and take a, an eyeball to what the new location is. Plus we're asking for additional information. So I think it's appropriate to carry the matter to the next meeting. This shouldn't take very long so that we can get some details to put in a proposed resolution, assuming the board votes in the affirmative.
Speaker 14Okay. If that's what the board wants.
Speaker 11Understood. Mr. Mr. Kingley, if I could just ask if there is any document and maybe you're not the right person to ask. Maybe it's to to Laura if there's any documentation or any sort of previous schedule that is applied to other digital signs in the, in the town such as that Piscataway community center. If there's a a, you know, a timing for illumination for that just so that we can see what sort of information that you are
Speaker 0That Well, Mr. Arch, I think every application is taken on its own merits. So since you are asking for relief and the justification for the relief is based upon your worship schedule, I think you should provide that information.
Speaker 11A a absolutely. I'm not, I'm not saying that I want that so that we can just say we will do the same thing. I'm merely stating that you're, you're asking for a schedule, you're asking for other sorts of things just for the every lawyer cribs. Nobody makes it. Nobody, nobody, no lawyer. CR creates every anything outta whole cloth. So I was merely asking if there is a existing sort of schedule or resolution that pertains to it that has language such as that, that we could look off of. I'm more than happy to do that. If it doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. It
Speaker 0Was really, I'm not aware of one. So it was just
Speaker 11A request have
Speaker 0To work on.
Speaker 1Yeah, I know.
Speaker 0Okay. Laura, how did we look in August one meeting, right?
Speaker 1Yeah. 'cause July isn't like a week and a half where we're not gonna make July not gonna have August 15th,
Speaker 0Mr.
Speaker 14Don't you have one in
Speaker 0I can get out, I can get out to the site, you know, next week sometime. So anybody else feel free to stop by and share your thoughts at the next meeting.
Speaker 1We gonna do August 15th. Yeah.
Speaker 0Mr. Goomer, are you agreeable to ar August 15th?
Speaker 11I will certainly defer to, to my client if he has any issues with that date, I can certainly be available. Yeah.
Speaker 14I'm
Speaker 0Dr. Safi, are you agreeable to August 15th?
Speaker 14Yeah. Y yes. But is it, is there any space in end of July meeting?
Speaker 1We only have one meeting. We don't have during the summer meetings in the summertime. Yeah, that's the problem. Yeah, there's only the one meeting in July. One meeting in August till September.
Speaker 14So July
Speaker 1Pushing everybody on. So our apologies.
Speaker 14I can provide what Mr. Mr. Kinneally wants. Well ahead of that July 11 meeting, the visits can happen before that. I'm not sure.
Speaker 0Well, with the holiday coming up, I don't wanna put any pressure on the board to get out there in, in a week's time.
Speaker 1I'm off next week,
Speaker 0So Yeah, so I unfortunately I think August is, is when we're gonna hear this again.
Speaker 11We'll, we'll certainly agree to that. There's no special meetings be between now and then that we could just get thrown on since this will be
Speaker 1No, we only have to lie
Speaker 0There. There are not and in fact I doubt we could get a quorum.
Speaker 1Yes, but also we have to remember anything I need, I would need 10 days before. Understood. I would need everything by Monday. So it's just, it's not feasible.
Speaker 11Laura, I trust that you can get things done like
Speaker 1That. Yeah, but I won't be here so it's fine.
Speaker 0Hope you're not even thinking about this place when you're on vacation.
Speaker 1So, Mr. My daughter's dancing. It's not vacation.
Speaker 0Mr. Arch and Dr. Saey, are you agreeable to carry the matter to August 15th?
Speaker 14Yes.
Speaker 0Okay.
Speaker 11That's the board's wishes.
Speaker 0Absolutely. Thank you. Any anybody here on the Muslim Center application? It's gonna be carried to August 15th, 2024 with no further notice by the applicant. The only notice you're receiving is my announcement here tonight. Thank you gentlemen.
Speaker 11Thank you. Have a good night. I hope everybody have
Speaker 1A good week.
Adoption of Minutes AI  00:45:50 – 00:46:08
Board approved minutes from regular meeting of June 13th, 2024 by unanimous voice vote.
Speaker 0Alright, we're gonna do the resos on the 11th, correct? Yes, yes. So let's move on to item number 11, which is the adoption of minutes from the regular meeting of June 13th, 2024. All in favor?
Speaker 14Aye. Aye.
Adjournment AI  00:46:08 – 00:46:23
Meeting adjourned. Chairman thanked board members for their time and dedication, and wished attendees a happy and safe Fourth of July.
Speaker 0Item number 12. Adjournment. Thank you all again for your time and your dedication and have a happy and safe. 4th of July.
Speaker 1Happy 4th of July, everyone. Happy? Fourth. Fourth July. Have a good night
Speaker 0Everybody. Everyone.
Speaker 14Have a great evening.
Speaker 1Bye John.
Speaker 14Bye.