Transcript for Piscataway Planning meeting on August 13 2025

Note: Transcripts are generated by rev.ai and may not be fully accurate. Please listen to the recording (below) if you feel any text is inaccurate.

Speaker 0     00:00:03    We're just waiting for Ms. Corcoran. Laura, we're good to go. All right. Thank you. You can begin. Madam Chair.  
Speaker 1     00:00:14    Okay. The Getaway Township Planning Board meeting will please come to order. Adequate notice of this meeting will was provided in the following ways. Notice published in the Coer News notice posted on the bulletin board of the municipal building notice made available to the township clerk notice sent to the Courier News and the star ledger. Ms. Buckley, would you please call the role  
Speaker 0     00:00:37    Mayor Wahler? Present Councilwoman Cahill. Here. Ms. Coran. She's trying. Ms. Saunders.  
Speaker 2     00:00:49    Here.  
Speaker 0     00:00:50    Mr. Atkins.  
Speaker 3     00:00:51    Here.  
Speaker 0     00:00:53    Mr. Ah Hammed. Yep. Here. Mr. Aria and Madam Chair,  
Speaker 1     00:01:00    Present the flag. You can see over my shoulder. Can we all recite the Pledge of Allegiance? In unison, I pledge allegiance, pledge  
Speaker 4     00:01:13    Allegiance to the,  
Speaker 1     00:01:14    The flag of the  
Speaker 4     00:01:16    United States of America  
Speaker 1     00:01:19    And to the Republic. Republic wit stands one nation under God  
Speaker 4     00:01:27    With Liberty. Liberty and justice. And justice for all. All.  
Speaker 1     00:01:37    Can we swear in the professionals? Please?  
Speaker 2     00:01:41    Can you please raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony about to give will be the truth and nothing but the truth?  
Speaker 4     00:01:48    I do. I do.  
Speaker 1     00:01:50    Is Mr. Barlow present? I didn't. Is  
Speaker 5     00:01:53    I am standing in for Mr. Barlow tonight. He has a conflict on this application. Madam Chair. Hello.  
Speaker 1     00:01:57    Good to see you. Okay, thank you. How are you? Very well, thank you. Could you, could you recite the open public meetings notice, please, sir?  
Speaker 5     00:02:03    Yes. This meeting of the Piscataway Township Planning Board is authorized under the Open Public Meetings Act. It is a remote meeting only under the guidelines established by the Department of Community Affairs and we have authorization to go forward.  
Speaker 1     00:02:15    Thank you. And are there any changes to our agenda tonight?  
Speaker 5     00:02:18    Not to my knowledge.  
Speaker 1     00:02:20    Thank you. The agenda will proceed as it's written. May I have a motion to pay the duly authorized or the duly audited bills? Please would one of the board members please make that motion?  
Speaker 3     00:02:36    I'll make a motion that, that we pay the duly audited  
Speaker 1     00:02:39    Bills. Do I have a second?  
Speaker 2     00:02:43    Carol Saunders. Second.  
Speaker 1     00:02:44    Thank you. Roll call please.  
Speaker 0     00:02:46    Ma. Mayor Wahler? Yes. Councilwoman Cahill? Yes. Ms. Saunders?  
Speaker 2     00:02:52    Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:02:53    Mr. Atkins?  
Speaker 3     00:02:54    Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:02:55    Mr. Ahmed? Yes. Ms. Corcoran here. And Madam Chair?  
Speaker 1     00:03:02    Yes. Item eight. We have no resolutions tonight, so I'll move on to item eight. On, on item nine on the agenda. Ms. Saunders, item number nine, adoption of the minutes from the previous meeting?  
Speaker 2     00:03:17    Yes, Madam Chairman, I, I like to memorialize the meeting many minutes from the last meeting. Sorry, my, my phone is echoing bad.  
Speaker 1     00:03:27    I'm sorry. Thank you. Do I have a second please? Second Councilwoman Cahill. Thank you. Roll call please.  
Speaker 0     00:03:36    Mayor Wahler? Yes. Councilwoman Kale? Yes. Ms. Corcoran? Yes. Ms. Saunders?  
Speaker 2     00:03:43    Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:03:43    Mr. Atkins? Yes. Mr. Ahmed? Yes. And Madam Chair.  
Speaker 1     00:03:49    Thank you. Yes. Item number 10. Tonight is 25 PB zero two River Crest point LLC. Kevin Morse appearing.  
Speaker 6     00:04:01    Thank you Madam Chairwoman, members of the board. My name is Kevin Morse, attorney in Woodbridge, New Jersey. I am appearing on behalf of the applicant, river Crest Point LLC. The subject property is block 7 3 0 5 lots 1901. 20 and 21 commonly known as four 50 River. River Crest Drive 51 60 51 7 Orchard Street in Piscataway Lot 19 0 19 0.01 is owned by the River Crest Cabana Club and lots 20 and 21 are owned by the township of Piscataway. The applicant is presently a purchaser under contract with respective owners of those subject properties. The proposal before you, we have Lot 1901 again, commonly known as the River Crest Cabana Swim Club. Lots 2021 are presently vacant. They surround or surrounded by lot 19.01 and the intention is to remove all the existing structures, the two swimming pools, the patios, the related structures and improvements and to construct a four separate two story townhouse buildings, which will each contain four, two bedroom units, a total of 16 units. And these will be age restrictive townhouse units, which will be offered to the public for sale. The property's located in the R 10 zone and has been designated by the township as an area in need of redevelopment.  
Speaker 6     00:05:35    The proposed site plan that is before you, there's one that is in conformity with the ordinance and the redevelopment plan, meaning that we do not meet you seek variance relief and we're before you requesting preliminary and final site plan approval and any other relief that the board may deem necessary. My screen seems to have gone blank. I don't know if you can see me.  
Speaker 5     00:06:07    We can see you. We can  
Speaker 6     00:06:08    See you. You're looking  
Speaker 8     00:06:09    Good there.  
Speaker 6     00:06:11    Alright. I appear to be back. Uhrin keystroke before we proceed. I did submit our affidavits of publication and mailing via overnight delivery. I just wanted to make sure that they were received in an order. So the board has jurisdiction to proceed on our application tonight.  
Speaker 5     00:06:27    They were received, they are in order and the board has jurisdiction to go forward.  
Speaker 6     00:06:31    Right. So I have three witnesses available to me. I have Mr. Michael Lombardi, who's a representative of the applicant. I don't intend on calling him unless we need to. I believe all the testimony from my engineer and architect will cover the application, but I just wanted to let you know that he's available. I will also have Les Walker, who is our professional engineer, and then finally Goomer Winkle, who is our licensed architect. So if I would be permitted to call my first witness, I would call Les Walker at this time.  
Speaker 1     00:07:01    You may do, you may do. So.  
Speaker 5     00:07:04    Mr. Walker present.  
Speaker 8     00:07:05    He is, I'm right here.  
Speaker 5     00:07:07    Mr. Walker, I need to swear you in. Could you raise your right hand? Do you swear the testimony you're about to give should be the truth?  
Speaker 8     00:07:13    I do.  
Speaker 5     00:07:14    Your name and address please.  
Speaker 8     00:07:17    Les Walker. And our address is 1199 Amboy Avenue in Edison and that is the location of Meridian Engineering Life, my company.  
Speaker 5     00:07:28    Thank you.  
Speaker 6     00:07:29    Right now, Mr. Walker, you're a licensed professional engineer, the state of New Jersey, my understanding since 2004 and your license is currently in good standing, is that correct?  
Speaker 8     00:07:38    That's correct.  
Speaker 6     00:07:39    Right. Madam Chairwoman, Mr. Walker's credentials are well known to this board. He has been accepted as an expert in his field on numerous prior occasions before this board on various different applicants that I would ask that you accept him as our expert with regard to professional engineering without him having to further detail his credentials. No  
Speaker 1     00:07:58    Objection.  
Speaker 6     00:08:00    Thank you. Alright. Now, Mr. Walker, you, your firm prepared the engineering site plans that are before the board this evening, is that correct?  
Speaker 8     00:08:08    That is correct.  
Speaker 6     00:08:09    Right. I would ask you to describe the site as it presently exists generally, and then the proposed development of the property by the applicant.  
Speaker 8     00:08:20    Okay. You should be able to see a colorized version of the site plan with the, like a, an aerial photo behind it. Is that, can you see that?  
Speaker 5     00:08:33    Yes, we can. Was that submitted with the package?  
Speaker 8     00:08:36    It was submitted, it was submitted to Laura electronically.  
Speaker 5     00:08:42    The colorized version was  
Speaker 8     00:08:44    Yes, that's that's correct.  
Speaker 5     00:08:46    Then it does not need to be  
Speaker 8     00:08:47    Separately. There's, there's this one that, there's this one that shows the, the behind it and I'll zoom version that you'll be able see a lot. Just for, just for context and to, to kind of describe where we are, I thought this one would be useful if it was  
Speaker 5     00:09:02    Part of the original package. It doesn't need to be marked.  
Speaker 8     00:09:05    Yeah, this would, this would be marked. This would, this would be I guess a one. Okay,  
Speaker 5     00:09:09    A one with today's date,  
Speaker 8     00:09:10    Please. Okay. So, so the, the site is located at it's lots 19.01 20 and 21 in block 73 0 5, located at four 50 River Crest Drive, Piscataway, as Kevin mentioned, it's the, the site of the existing River Crest Cabana Club. It is falls under a recently adopted redevelopment plan called the River Crest Cabana Collab Redevelopment Plan adopted as ordinance 2025 dash five in April of this year. It's a 2.225 acre parcel. It has frontage on River Crest Drive, which runs across the bottom and Orchard Street, which you can't see, but Orchard Street's a paper street that runs up the north is north is up on, on the plan. So it runs down the, the right side, which is east. It's a paper street undeveloped, but that's Orchard Street. The existing swim club was built in 1960 and inclu. It includes two poles, several small support buildings, and a gravel parking area.  
Speaker 8     00:10:21    It's bordered again, Riverside Drive on the, the south and across the street is Kack Middle School to the, to the west or the left plan left is N Court, which is six single family homes to the north is undeveloped and then to the East Plan. Right, is the, it's, it's a, the Aviate at Piscataway, it's a, it's a residential physical rehabilitation building. Three stories, and that's a commercial building to our east property generally slopes from the northeast top right of the plan to southeast bottom left of the plan. I'll switch over to one that you can actually see a little bit better.  
Speaker 8     00:11:14    That would be this one. I'll zoom in a little bit more. This would be a two, it's basically the same exact drawing, but without the aerial and, and up at a, a more visible scale, a two, so this is a two. So again, across the bottom is, is River Crest Drive. You can see there's, there's four identical townhouse buildings proposed with a, with a a central parking lot currently. River Crest Drive is a, at, at the dead end or the, the end of it here, there is a driveway that goes over towards the, the rehabilitation property. And then there's a driveway to the south that goes into the, it's, I think it's a, a teacher's lot behind the, the middle school. But it's, it's, it's really a, it, you know, functions as almost that dead end with just access to the school, like a, a back door entrance from the, the rehabilitation center.  
Speaker 8     00:12:19    And then to the, the access for the, the gravel parking lot for the, the Cabana Club. The River Crest Drive will be fully improved on the, the, the applicant's side, the north side with sidewalk right of way, dedication, curb and, and you know, and curb and, and full death pavement on the, we are proposing to, in order to bring this this road up to some sort of a standard, the cart way on the rest of River Crest is 36 feet wide. So we are proposing to kind of straighten out the sideline on the other, the other side towards, towards the south there towards the, the middle school. It kind of meanders that, that side kind of meanders in and out and we're, you know, gonna remove a little, a little section of, of kind of failing pavement and then widen, widen to make it a full 36 foot cart way for the entire stretch in front of us. And then the, the entire where, where it's, there's no existing pavement, it would be new, full depth and then everywhere else, as long as the, the road is in subgrade in good enough condition, it would be a mill overlay. So that it, so that it, it functions and looks like a completely new roadway.  
Speaker 8     00:13:47    As, as our attorney mentioned, that each, each of these units is four, two bedroom townhouses, age restricted. The parking lot in the middle has 38 proposed parking stalls. Three of those are a DA and five of those are electric vehicle parking stations and all meets or exceeds the requirements of the ordinance. Sidewalks will be proposed to, to, for access between the parking and to all of the units. Some of the units have frontage on the, the, the, or the, like the main front doors on the front of the building. And then some are on the back of the building because it's, you know, it's symmetrical all the way around the units on the, the top or the bottom, the, the doors on the top or the bottom of each one of these buildings, plan plan top and bottom are like a side door, not the, not the main front door, but the, but they're like a side secondary egress point sidewalks will be connected also out to the, the proposed sidewalk along River Crest drive for full connectivity for pedestrians.  
Speaker 8     00:15:01    The, the refuse enclosure is in the back of the parking lot. It'll, it'll, you know, be sufficient to to house the, the refuse and the recycling from, from the 16 units. And, you know, the, the pickup will will have to, you know, be scheduled kind of as, as needed once a week at minimum. But if, if, you know, the, I would imagine there'll be a homeowners association since they'll all be owned. They would have to, you know, adjust if, if they felt that a, a more frequent pickup, you know, twice a week or something provides that the right, the right timing and, and a cleaner a a, you know, so that there's not, you know, trash left in, in the front or outside of the bins. The site, the site will be fully, fully lighted.  
Speaker 8     00:15:56    LED lights in the parking lot on 14 foot poles. So they're not, they're not like overwhelming and, and you know, obnoxious all dark sky compliant and, and, and a a lantern style, you know, look to them. So, so they're, they're, you know, at, at the right scale and, and the right height for this kind of a development. Not, not what you would find like a, you know, like a Walmart parking lot, like big tall, you know, commercial looking lights. These are more decorative and, and a smaller scale bollards, bollard lighting will be provided kind of between the buildings and, and around the buildings and, you know, you know, certain spots just to make sure that at nighttime, like there's, there's enough light to, to see if you're walking in, in your doors in the back or whatever, but not to be, you know, obtrusive in, in, you know, shining in people's windows.  
Speaker 8     00:16:49    There is a, a proposed monument sign. It kind of hides at the bottom of the plan here under this tree. You can see my mouse moving. That's where, that's where there'll be a sign it's five feet by five feet, 25 square feet per side. It will have some, some landscaping around the base as requested by the township. You know, some, some decorative landscaping and nothing that would block the sign, but to, to make it a little bit more than, more than just a sign, a little bit, you know, nicer to look at. But that'll, that'll identify the project, the exact, you know, the exact language that'll be on it. Something like, you know, river crest point townhouses or river crest, you know, something like that. And that'll be designed and, and you know, at a later time. But, but it'll be 25 square feet and two and two sided.  
Speaker 8     00:17:44    There are approximately currently 85 trees on site. A total of 39 are coming down. Those are in the area of the existing pool, you know, kind of around that. So in the middle of the site where, where, you know, some of the buildings are going. And then at the bottom right hand corner where the, the, the wood zone Orchard Street kind of wrap around and, and, and end up in front of, in front of that bottom right townhouse so that we can get the sidewalks and pub the public sidewalk and, and the sidewalk connection in there. There's a, there's a handful of trees out there that have to come down in, in placement of those 39 trees that are coming down, we are proposing 49 trees. And that number's gonna change, I'll explain in a minute, but currently that the plan shows 49 trees to, for, for, to, to replace those trees.  
Speaker 8     00:18:40    So, so, and in addition, around the buildings, there's, you know, a, a very nice foundation plantings with shrubs and perennial plants. So there'll be very, a very attractive looking development. There will be more trees than 49, I believe the number, I, I don't know the exact number, but it goes up a bit. We've been looking at the, the review letters from the professionals and that's gonna generate some, some additional trees. And those additional trees are shown on the plan that you're looking at now. So this is enhanced with those additional trees. So you can see street trees across the front, some smaller, more ornamental decorative trees in and around the buildings, and then some, some additional trees around the top where it's, it's kind of open to the, the, the Texas Eastern transmission line property and the property, undeveloped property to the north where there's really no trees in that, that immediate vicinity but out of the easement. So, so on our side of, of that, you know, the right, the correct side of, of the easement line and then some additional along the left hand side towards the existing single families that the woods that are there are proposed to, to remain the woods, woods line there. But where there's some, some gaps and, and some, you know, some less, less dense areas up, you know, we're, we're showing some trees to be kind of, kind of field fit where, where it would be appropriate to give them a little better screening.  
Speaker 8     00:20:18    So stormwater management is fully compliant with, with the current New Jersey stormwater rules in including, you know, the year 2100 analysis, green, green infrastructure and, and, and rate reductions. The, the parking lot runs down to, runs down to a little bit more right where this tree is. And right where this tree is underneath those is, is what's called a filterra. And that's a, a like a a, it's a structure, concrete structure like an inlet, but in the top of it, there's, there's a, a planting medium for, for a tree, for a small tree, it has to be certain trees that, that, that thrive in these conditions. So the water, the water from the parking lot will, will come down, go to the two inlets on either side and then back into these structures where, you know, the, the first layer is mulch and any garbage or debris that washes off the parking lot is, is lays on top of the mulch.  
Speaker 8     00:21:19    And then it goes through like a sand media underneath before it gets to an under drain and then goes to the under underground detention basin. And that really provides, and, and they're certified by N-J-D-E-P to provide at minimum 80% TSS removal. And so that meets the, the, the standard you can see kind of in the middle of the parking lot, under the parking lot is where our stormwater management pipe system will be under, under the parking lot with an outlet control structure in manholes on either side where, where the, the water from these, these, the tree boxes will filter back into the system. And then also at the top, all the roof leaders from from the, the buildings will come into the underground system that is considered by DEP to be clean water. So it can go right into the system. And then, and then what the underground detention basin does is it, is it slows down the rate of, of water leaving the site to meet those required 50%, 25% and 20% reductions for the two 10 and 100 year storms respectively.  
Speaker 8     00:22:30    Water will then the, the, the, the grassy areas behind the buildings will come down to some, some yard inlets and then the, the detention basin comes out to that same on a manhole to that same system. And then it comes down to the corner of the property and it meets the existing municipal system that is just at our south the, the southwest corner of our property where, where we meet river crest runoff, the runoff rate from our site is reduced. So what, what was getting to that inlet before from this property will be lessened by the, the proposed improvements and certainly the quality of the water is gonna be significantly improved because right now it's just a, you know, it's a large, you know, probably two thirds of an acre gravel parking lot. And, and if you look at, you know, you go out there, you can see some, some silt staining in the parking lot from water that just is uncontrolled running off a gravel parking lot down the street. So, so storm water is handled and that's really all I have on the, the plans themselves. I did review the, the professional's reports.  
Speaker 6     00:23:44    Well, Mr. Walker, before we get into that, just a couple of quick questions for you Of course. Just of based upon, based upon the testimony you just produced with regard to the stormwater management drainage, will this proposed development by the applicant have any negative impact on adjacent or neighboring properties with regard to drainage or storm water management?  
Speaker 8     00:24:02    None at all. It's all gonna be positive.  
Speaker 6     00:24:04    Alright. Now with regard to the improvements that you mentioned regarding the roadway, which will improve to a two-way street based upon township standards, including sidewalks overall, will that improvement that's being done in connection with this application represent an overall improvement for both vehicular traffic and public safety compared to what exists in front the city  
Speaker 8     00:24:32    Right now? Yeah, absolutely because it'll be a, a full, the full 36 foot wide cart way that the rest of River Crest Drive has, and it's gonna have sidewalk that connects a little bit offsite to the east there to the end of the sidewalk that that comes from NY court and it's gonna extend that across the frontage of our property  
Speaker 6     00:24:52    Right now with regard to the, a waiver for the need for any type of traffic impact statement. I understand. Do you have an opinion as in your expertise is whether this proposed 16 age restricted units, will they have any appreciable impact on traffic at the surrounding area?  
Speaker 8     00:25:09    No, I I I don't believe there's gonna be a, any noticeable change in traffic there. The, you know, you in, in the summertime I would imagine that, that the swim club can, you know, get a, get a pretty good crowd on on any day. So you would have a lot of daytime traffic, you know, you're talking about 16 age restricted units. So, you know, I, I just, just last month, two weeks ago, I am officially old enough to move into a 55 and older community. So you're talking about, you know, professionals that are, you know, their, their kids are, you know, their, their kids are grown and you know, maybe it's just mom and dad are left and they wanna downsize, have a little less responsibility for, for maintenance a little, they don't need the big house anymore. You know, so it could be a, a, a professional, you know, professionals that are later in life or it could be retired people and you know, they, we, we don't function on at the, the, the same, the same bandwidth that that younger crowds and you might find at a, a traditional apartment or townhouse complex that would have, you know, families and younger people.  
Speaker 8     00:26:18    So I would imagine that, that this, this is not gonna pro, you know, prove any negative impact on the surrounding streets.  
Speaker 6     00:26:26    Alright, now with regard and we'll, we'll go through each memo individually, but generally I understand you took a look based upon some of the review comments generally, and I just want you to confirm that in fact you've determined there are no discrepancies with any of the setbacks and that the proposed site plan before the board is in conformity with the township zoning ordinance and the redevelopment standards and therefore that no variance relief is required. We are in fact a conforming site plan. Is that true?  
Speaker 8     00:26:57    That is true. So, so there was a, there was a question about the front yard versus the side yard. We called the river crest drive as the front yard and put the rear yard as back at the, at the top there by the Texas Eastern Transmission Corp pipeline and, and then the side yard towards, you know, towards the Orchard Street right of way and towards the, the backyard of the, the homes on n court, the, the planning memo calls out, calls that out opposite that the, the, the rear yard would be actually to the, to the left or to the right and that the, the front, the, the side yard would be, you know, to the top of the plan. But either way we, we have over 60 feet in, in both directions and the requirement for the side or the rear yard is only 25 feet and our minimum is over 60 feet.  
Speaker 9     00:27:52    Mr. Mr. Morris, this is Ron Reson, just, it is just a technical item. The redevelopment plan defines the rear yard where our, you know, it's, it's specifically op opposite or the Orchard Map street. That's what it says, it's by nine, that's what we went by.  
Speaker 6     00:28:08    No, no, no issue but we comply. Yeah,  
Speaker 8     00:28:10    Regardless we're compliant.  
Speaker 9     00:28:11    No, no, you absolutely comply. So I mean it is just sort of board knows that was a technical item. It was really redevelopment plan specific on this one little oddball thing.  
Speaker 6     00:28:21    Alright, so now Mr. Walker, we had a chance, there's four review memos that have been produced to us. We'll, we'll we'll just talk about 'em very briefly. One at a time. First there was a review memo dated J July 8th, 2025 that was issued by the township Department of Engineering Planning and Development. That's the staff memo. We had the opportunity to review all the items in that memo with the applicant. Is that correct?  
Speaker 8     00:28:48    That's right.  
Speaker 6     00:28:49    And I understand that we will be able to comply with the all of the requests you believe to the satisfaction of the board professionals. Is that right?  
Speaker 8     00:28:57    Yeah, I think the only exception would be, I don't believe there are any affordable housing units proposed. So 12 and thir comments 12 and 13 would not apply, but the rest of it is, is certainly will comply fully well  
Speaker 6     00:29:09    Certainly whatever is required, affordable or not, the applicant is prepared to required with that, that is required by law. Is that correct?  
Speaker 8     00:29:17    That's right.  
Speaker 6     00:29:17    Alright. Yeah. And then just one item in that memo, there was a request for some per, perhaps for some recreational amenities, and we'll just place on the record, the applicant is prepared to install some raised flower beds and a few benches. It's a relatively small development, but he would agree to provide those amenities, is that correct?  
Speaker 8     00:29:37    Yeah, I mean we, we talked about providing some benches, you know, know around, you know, kind of around the, the, the perimeter sidewalk. And then yeah, I believe, you know, if if the, the township was looking for more, you know, maybe find, find a couple locations for some raised like, like little beds that they could garden in, you know, if there's somebody who had that as a hobby or something like that. But yeah, we'll work with staff to, to make sure that that, you know, this'll be a a something that, that the township could be proud of.  
Speaker 6     00:30:09    Okay. And then the next memo that we received was dated July 15th, 2025. That was issued by Delaware, Delaware Railroad Engineering, which are the planning board engineers. I understand we've had the opportunity to review that memo with the applicant as well.  
Speaker 8     00:30:26    That's right.  
Speaker 6     00:30:28    And I understand that there are no issues with any of the comments in there and the applicant will be able to comply with the request in that memo, you believe to the board engineer satisfaction, is that correct?  
Speaker 8     00:30:40    That's right. Fully compliant.  
Speaker 6     00:30:42    Okay. Next, there's a review memo dated July 21st, 2025 issued by SE Associates. They're the planning board planners, we reviewed that together with the applicant also, correct Mr. Walker?  
Speaker 8     00:30:57    That's right.  
Speaker 6     00:30:59    And generally I believe we could comply with the recommendations. There is one item in particular, however, and while I understand the nature of the comment, we have 38 parking spaces. Rarely do I come in front of the board where I actually have a few extra parking spaces. Often we're trying to just reach compliance, but in this case we're over by a couple of spaces and there's a comment that we could reduce or eliminate some of the parking spaces. But in reviewing this, I understand with the applicant it would be our position that there's always a benefit to a few extra spaces. It's not obtrusive to the development and we would ask the board to confirm it would be our request that we do not reduce the 38 parking spaces that are currently depicted on the plan. Is that accurate?  
Speaker 8     00:31:45    That's correct.  
Speaker 9     00:31:46    Okay. Yeah, and just to confirm, we don't want you to reduce it, it's just, it's just situation with RSIS being changed two years ago where they went from parking minimums to parking maximums and if you go over by a couple it is just, it's really an FYI comment and it really is a state standard, so as long as you, you know, that's why we defer to the township for the interpretation. I still haven't heard back from DCA on how to handle this.  
Speaker 6     00:32:12    Well, we appreciate the comment and the fact I gather you have no objection to the 38 remaining, is that right?  
Speaker 9     00:32:18    Oh, absolutely not.  
Speaker 6     00:32:20    Okay. And then the last memo we have is dated July 11th, 2025 that was issued by the Department of Public Works. I think it had to do with just a specific required fitting, but the applicant reviewed that and is prepared to comply with that request as well. Is that accurate?  
Speaker 8     00:32:36    Yeah, I, the mike, the copy of the letter that I have is dated February 11th, but yeah, it, it's about, I  
Speaker 6     00:32:43    Think it's, I think it's July 11th. It, I think it's just a a, a zip in the handwriting because it re refers  
Speaker 8     00:32:48    Makes sense to,  
Speaker 6     00:32:49    Makes sense. But in any event, we'll we'll comply with that, correct?  
Speaker 8     00:32:52    Yeah. Fully comply. That's right.  
Speaker 6     00:32:53    All right. So look, that would I believe conclude Mr. Walker's testimony. If there are questions from the board or any of the board professionals or or staff, we would certainly invite them. Now I think we've covered everything, but we're happy to field any questions you may have.  
Speaker 10    00:33:11    Members of the board, do you have any questions of this witness? Madam Chair? This is Councilwoman Cahill. I don't know, I better ask first this is just the plan. Is there gonna be Mr. Moore, someone on who's gonna talk about the actual structures Yes. The designs, the color scheme, what it's gonna look like?  
Speaker 6     00:33:36    Yes. My next witness will be our, our architect, Mr. Winkel, who will be able to field those questions and will present some testimony  
Speaker 10    00:33:44    Als. So maybe just one, maybe not a question, but a point the these buildings do not have any garages, correct?  
Speaker 6     00:33:54    That's my understanding. They do not,  
Speaker 10    00:33:56    No. Okay. And so recently Middlesex County implemented new recycling bins probably when you're developing this plan, you didn't become aware that that is becoming an issue for folks who have no place to store them. They're 95 gallon bins. And so the county is gonna be looking for spaces for developments such as this that do not have a garage where people can perhaps store that for them to include a, maybe a space where everyone can put their 95 gallon container. And that will have to that I'm so sorry. Go ahead.  
Speaker 8     00:34:43    No, go. We, we do have an application file with Middlesex County Planning Board. So I would imagine that, that we would be hearing from them soon. So, you know, we'll certainly accommodate, you know, whatever, whatever it is they need. I, I can't imagine that that, you know, a a a senior couple, you know, somebody my age or older is gonna be, you know, generating 95 gallons worth of recycling every, you know, every week, but will certainly comply with whatever.  
Speaker 10    00:35:09    Oh, that's the only choice they have. The barrel is not a choice. They don't, we no longer in Middlesex County have an option of putting little bins out that separate corrugate from bottles. It's  
Speaker 8     00:35:22    One. Right. But this would be, this would be private pickup.  
Speaker 10    00:35:26    So even recycling is private pickup,  
Speaker 8     00:35:28    I would imagine. Yes. That, that this would be private trash and recycling.  
Speaker 11    00:35:33    Now if I may Madam chair that, that's done through the county MCIA, it's not private. The town pays for the recycling pickup through the MCIA.  
Speaker 10    00:35:46    Yeah, maybe garbage will be private pickup because we pay for our own garbage. But the county and the  
Speaker 11    00:35:52    Gar, regular gar household trash garbage is private. Right. But the county recycling is paid through to town. Yeah.  
Speaker 10    00:36:00    And this is all very new because this was just implemented as of like the first week of August and it was calls that not only the county was receiving, but certainly the mayor's office were receiving with folks who have no garages, no places to store such a large bin, you know, so that's, that's gonna have to be taken into consideration regardless of whatever the county approves. That's going to have to be taken into consideration for this plan as to where they're gonna be stored. If there's no shed, no garage, where are you keeping it?  
Speaker 12    00:36:42    Gabby? This is, this is Dawn. I Dawn Corcoran. I was just wondering though, do you know whether or not, I mean, if they have a designated recycling area next to the, the refuse is, is that acceptable? Like is the county even,  
Speaker 10    00:36:55    Oh, it's not that it's, well, I, I, well, I have no idea. All I know is every residence, so these are four sale units is getting a recycling bin that's a 95 gallon bin. So if they all can be stored in there, that's fine in a common recycling area. I just don't know how that will work without any kind of storage for the resident here  
Speaker 12    00:37:25    On this plan. Les, is it just strictly that you have it, the, the enclosures for refuse only or is that also designated for recycling? Do you have both? Yeah,  
Speaker 8     00:37:36    No, we were, we were picture, yeah, we were envisioning one, one, I believe there's six, six or eight yard, you know, dumpster for refuse. And then the same for recycling. Right? Commingled recycling. But I mean, it, it's certainly, I I believe that the pad is, is the enclosures 10 by 20, so there's certainly room in there, but if, if they, this, this county mandate is gonna gonna require them to have 16 individual bins. It seems excessive, but certainly we'll, we'll, we'll work it out and if we need to widen the pad or something, or we'll work it out with, with  
Speaker 10    00:38:13    Whatever, yeah, they have a special truck, so it's less manpower now it's, you know, like what they've, a lot of people do with garbage trucks too, right? In my individual home, like if I had midco or Waste Management, they don't have a guy picking up that barrel anymore. It's a side, you know, it's kinda like that side loader thing that picks up the barrel and dumps it in.  
Speaker 8     00:38:35    Yeah, sure. Yeah, we have, we have that here where I'm too, yeah, it's just, I'm just trying to picture 16 individual units rolled out to the curb. You know, it, it's just, it,  
Speaker 10    00:38:44    It it's something you might wanna Yeah, you might, you might wanna consider it because it, you know, those, those are big blue barrels and I don't think for an, from an aesthetic point of view, you want them all hanging out.  
Speaker 8     00:38:57    Yeah, right. Okay. Okay. We'll, we'll look into that and, and see what we need to do.  
Speaker 10    00:39:02    Right. And I, I, I guess this is really all we can afford with parking spaces. I mean, I know it's not required for you to have more, but, you know, is there parking on River Crest? Do we know that Dawn, in case folks are entertaining, you know, have two cars in a household.  
Speaker 8     00:39:28    Everybody, every third we, we allotted for two cars per unit, plus six additional spaces. So there are six for visitors or delivery. But certainly if, if many of these people were, were, you know, entertaining Christmas dinner and, and the whole family came for a visit, that's when you would, you know, potentially, you know, look, be looking at the, looking, the potential of people parking along the  
Speaker 10    00:39:51    Street. Yeah. So that's my question. Do we know if there's gonna be parking allowed on that? I mean, I don't think we have no parking up there designated now.  
Speaker 12    00:40:02    I agree. I don't believe we have no parking.  
Speaker 10    00:40:04    Okay. All right. Thank you.  
Speaker 1     00:40:09    Any, any other questions from the, this witness before we call the next witness? I believe we should open it up to the public before we go to the next witness. Ms. Buckley,  
Speaker 0     00:40:28    You have to open it. Madam Chair,  
Speaker 1     00:40:32    Members of the public, if you have a question of this witness, would you please indicate by a show of hands on your computer?  
Speaker 13    00:40:41    Oh, hold on a second.  
Speaker 0     00:40:45    There's someone on an iPhone.  
Speaker 1     00:40:47    Okay. It says  
Speaker 0     00:40:48    IPhone three.  
Speaker 5     00:40:54    IPhone three to identify yourself.  
Speaker 13    00:40:58    Can you hear me?  
Speaker 5     00:41:00    Yes. Could you identify yourself?  
Speaker 13    00:41:02    Ed Marsh  
Speaker 1     00:41:04    Hear address please?  
Speaker 13    00:41:07    1 1 3 Woff Avenue. Piscataway.  
Speaker 8     00:41:14    Thank  
Speaker 5     00:41:14    You.  
Speaker 1     00:41:15    Go ahead sir.  
Speaker 13    00:41:17    First a comment, I had trouble with finding the link, excuse me, the link to get on the meeting and I had to ask a friend, so I wanted to mention that the parking is a concern. You know, it doesn't sound like there's  
Speaker 5     00:41:32    Madam Chairwoman. Is this a time for questions or comments?  
Speaker 1     00:41:38    This is, he can ask a question.  
Speaker 13    00:41:41    Thank you. I guess I don't have a question at this time. Thank you.  
Speaker 1     00:41:48    Okay. Any, anyone else in the public would like to ask questions of this witness? Only in his testimony. Would you please indicate by a show of hands on your computer?  
Speaker 4     00:42:03    No, Madam Chair.  
Speaker 1     00:42:04    Thank you. Closed to the public for this witness.  
Speaker 6     00:42:08    Alright, then I would ask Mr. Walker to stand down. He will of course remain with us in, in case questions come up during the remainder of this hearing and I would next call Mr. Goomer Winkle, who is our architect.  
Speaker 1     00:42:22    Thank you.  
Speaker 5     00:42:23    Mr. Winkle, are you present, Mr. Winkle?  
Speaker 14    00:42:31    I think he's muted.  
Speaker 5     00:42:34    Mr. Winkle, could you unmute? Unmute Mr. Winkle? Can you hear us? Mr. Winkle? Can you un unmute? Unmute,  
Speaker 4     00:43:03    Unmute. I should be  
Speaker 5     00:43:05    You. Yes, we can hear you now.  
Speaker 4     00:43:07    Okay.  
Speaker 5     00:43:08    I need to swear you in. Could you raise your right hand? Yes. Do you swear this testimony you're about to give should be the truth?  
Speaker 4     00:43:14    I do.  
Speaker 5     00:43:15    Your name and address please.  
Speaker 4     00:43:18    Goomer Charles Winkle, 9 47 Park Avenue Plainfield.  
Speaker 5     00:43:23    Thank you.  
Speaker 6     00:43:25    Alright, Mr. Winkle, I understand that you have been a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey since 1981, and your license is currently in good standing, is that correct?  
Speaker 4     00:43:35    Correct. Yes it is.  
Speaker 6     00:43:37    Right. Madam Sherwin, Mr. Winkle credentials are, I think, believe known to the board. He's been testifying for a long time and he has been previously accepted before this board on prior occasions as an expert in his field. I'm gonna ask that you accept him as the applicant's expert, architectural expert without the need to go into further detail of his qualifications.  
Speaker 1     00:44:01    Thank you, Mr. Winkle is acceptable.  
Speaker 4     00:44:04    Thank you.  
Speaker 6     00:44:06    Right now, Mr. Winkle, you prepared the architectural plans that are before the board this evening, is that correct? Yes,  
Speaker 4     00:44:12    It is.  
Speaker 6     00:44:13    And I also understand that you have, we have two dimensional, three dimensional color renderings. I think the first one was, was placed up earlier for demonstrative purposes. I believe that would be a three. Mr. So I would ask you while that rendering is up to describe the townhouse buildings that are proposed by this applicant?  
Speaker 4     00:44:42    Yeah, well this is a, a rendering of the proposed townhouse buildings. It basically depicts everything on my drawings, but it, it, it goes into the colors. And if we could, I'd rather go through the presentation of the plans and elevations and then get back to the rendering and talk about the, the colors and the materials.  
Speaker 6     00:45:10    Okay. So why don't we start with that then?  
Speaker 4     00:45:13    Okay, so this is sheet A one. It is the first floor plan. As mentioned. These, this project is for four fourplex buildings. Each one of these buildings has four units for two bedroom units. The floor plan for each unit is basically the same for each of the four, only maybe mirrored or left or right. The units themselves are 60 feet, four inches wide and 60 feet four inches deep. Total square footage of each floor is 36 40 3,640. The square footage of each unit is 910 per floor. So we are proposing two floors plus a full basement. And the basement would have be the same 910 floor at 910 square feet, but it'll be unfinished. It will only have the, the utilities and storage space. That's how the units will be sold. The, the buyers will have the, the option to finish their basements at a later time, but that would require permits and at a later time.  
Speaker 4     00:47:09    So if we look at the first floor plan, the, the actual entrances are on the left and the right of this drawing. So you would come up the steps, enter the front door and you'd be at a, the foyer hallway. The stair would be to the right or the left. And on either the right or the left is the dining room. On, on the opposite side of the dining room is an office space. The office space is in the outside corner to get additional light. If you, if you go down the hallway, you come to the rear of the unit and there is an open family room kitchen that the family room is 14 feet wide by 17 feet deep in the kitchen, 14 feet by 11 four. So it's a large open space.  
Speaker 4     00:48:26    Additionally on the, on the first floor next to the office, between the office and the family room, there's the coat closet and a half bath. Again, each unit is the same, the entrance is on the left side and the right side. And there's an additional sliding glass door off the family room that, that goes to the exterior walkways. If we go to sheet two, which is the second floor, you'll see when you get up, when you get up the stair to the second floor, there is a, a small hallway space. And out of that hallway you can enter either the master bedroom or the secondary bedroom. The master, which is toward the interior of the, the units is 1610 by 15 four, a fairly large bedroom. It has its own master bath and it has a walk-in separate walk-in closet going back out into the hallway and enter the secondary bedroom.  
Speaker 4     00:50:03    That bedroom is 15 feet by 10 foot two and that also has a walk-in closet. It does not have a, its own separate bath, but there is a second bathroom and a laundry room and linen closet in that off of that hallway. So basically the second floor, two bedrooms, two bath, and the laundry room. If we go to the next sheet, which is the, this is the front elevation and the rear elevation and that, that was ba based on looking at the site plan, having the front and the rear. You'll see that we've tried to break up this, the elevation to be much more interesting with the double gable on each side of the second floor. And, and the hip roofs going back to make it a more interesting, when you, if you look to the very top and you see the, the gable coming out on each side on the left and the right, those are dormers that we've designed into the roof, which you would see on, on the next plan.  
Speaker 4     00:51:51    When we get, when we get to that plan, that's, that was done to, to in make the aesthetics of, of the side elevations much more interesting and attractive. The materials are, are gonna be cultured stone along the bottom, and then basically vinyl siding around the rest of the exterior standard shingle roofing. And if you look between the first and second floor, you'll see that we have a, a roof overhang that wraps along the entire building. This is to break up the elevation into more, more smaller spaces rather than a long two story wall of, of just of siding. Okay. If we go to the next sheet, a four, this is a, the typical side elevation, but this is the front, this is the entry elevation. So this, this elevation would face the parking lot and these two units that face the parking, that would be the entrance door with the, the hip roof and the dormers in the third floor or in the attic space. Now there, those are just decorative. The, the attic is only used for utility space, basically. That's the only reason for the attic. The materials are the same along all four elevations. And the, the height of the entire structure is 34 feet, six inches.  
Speaker 4     00:54:19    Now if we go to the rendering,  
Speaker 6     00:54:25    I think we marked that as a three. Yes, A three. Okay.  
Speaker 4     00:54:31    Okay. The, the rendering is de depicts the same thing that we have on our, our plan. The, we're proposing to do the building in white and a a dark gray or, well not black, but a dark. It would be a dark gray roofing material. And the, and the stone baseline would be cultured stone, most likely a tan or tanish brown. The, the, the only thing, the rendering that isn't correct on the rendering is that the parking lot is not on this particular side. The parking lot is on the, the opposite side, which in the rendering is on the right side. But basically this is how it would look.  
Speaker 6     00:55:41    Right. So if I can confirm a couple things with you, Mr. Winkle. Number one, all the townhouse buildings conformed to the maximum allowable height requirements in the zone. Is that correct?  
Speaker 4     00:55:52    That is correct.  
Speaker 6     00:55:53    In fact, the townhouse buildings otherwise comply, they're totally in conformity with the townships zoning ordinance as well as the redevelopment plan. Is that accurate?  
Speaker 4     00:56:05    Yes, it is.  
Speaker 6     00:56:06    Okay. With regard just to the units, I understand each of the units will have central air conditioning with individual typical outdoor residential compressor units. Is that correct?  
Speaker 4     00:56:20    That is.  
Speaker 6     00:56:21    And other than that, the rest of the mechanicals will be inside the structures either in the basement or in the attic if it's one or two zones for HVAC, is that correct?  
Speaker 4     00:56:31    That's correct. Right now the the basement, the only thing in the basement would be hot water heater and, and a furnace. Okay. And then up in the attic would be the, the air blower and possibly a second furnace.  
Speaker 6     00:56:50    Okay. And just to confirm, these are all standalone individual units and there are no common rooms, common communal areas in any of these four buildings, is that correct?  
Speaker 4     00:57:02    That's correct.  
Speaker 6     00:57:03    Okay. And now in particular with regard to the, your testimony on the architectural features, I mean the applicant has taken great panes with all these roof line cuts and gables to add some architectural diversity and some flare as opposed to just four simple strip roof lines. Is that correct?  
Speaker 4     00:57:29    Definitely correct.  
Speaker 6     00:57:31    And the board should be aware this by doing that with all these additional cuts and gables, that's actually much more expensive to construct a, a structure that way than just having two peak roof lines, is that correct?  
Speaker 4     00:57:43    Much more expensive,  
Speaker 6     00:57:44    Yes. Right. But the applicant is prepared to do that because the applicant seeking to proceed with the buildings that do have this architectural even though flare, even though it costs much more to construct them with all these fancy roof cuts and gables and so forth. Is that accurate?  
Speaker 4     00:58:01    That's accurate. Of course the applicant would wanna produce something that aesthetically pleasing would definitely be more rentable also.  
Speaker 6     00:58:13    Okay. Well these are for sale, but a from an architectural perspective, do you believe that this type of building as you've designed it does in fact produce that architectural diversity flavor and is more visually appealing than what otherwise might be constructed in a typical townhouse unit?  
Speaker 4     00:58:35    I would say yes. Yes.  
Speaker 6     00:58:36    Okay. Very well. I have no further questions of Mr. Winkle at this time. If there are questions from members of the board, the staff or the professionals,  
Speaker 1     00:58:47    Thank you members of the board. Do you have any questions of Mr. Winkle?  
Speaker 3     00:58:53    I have a question. Is Mr. Atkins  
Speaker 1     00:58:56    Okay,  
Speaker 3     00:58:57    Will there  
Speaker 1     00:58:57    Be, go ahead Mr. Atkins.  
Speaker 3     00:58:59    Will there be firewalls in between each unit?  
Speaker 4     00:59:02    Yes, there's a two hour firewall.  
Speaker 1     00:59:08    Any other question?  
Speaker 10    00:59:13    Madam Chair, if I was gonna defer if anyone else, any of the professionals have questions? If not, I'm ready to go to go to ask my questions. Go ahead, ask your question please. Plural. So a couple of things on the, let, let me start with the, for the record, this is Councilwoman Cahill. Yeah. Oh, I'm so sorry. Councilman Cahill. Couple of things on the architectural design. Let's start with what is the front doors? I see that the front doors, I don't know, we don't have to go back to that screenshot, but the front doors also have this sort of sidewalk up and stoop. Why aren't they just coming forward? Like normal sort of homes would have,  
Speaker 4     01:00:21    When we, when we first designed them, I wasn't quite sure how high we would be. It, it appears from the site plan that we might be able to straighten them out. We didn't, didn't think we had enough room to come directly forward with the stair.  
Speaker 10    01:00:49    I mean, just architecturally speaking that it looks like a side door or it looks like, you know, more like an apartment complex with that look, I just think architecturally speaking it, it's doesn't give presence to the front of the door. It looks like a side entrance. So those are just my opinion, my opinion on that piece for  
Speaker 8     01:01:18    Councilman Cahill. Yes, Councilman Cahill. If I could chime in, we might have to scooch the buildings back a hare, you know, a couple of feet from the parking lot, but we could certainly accommodate moving, turning the porches sideways and it and it, the buildings will still be in a, in a location that's fully compliant with zoning.  
Speaker 10    01:01:37    Right, right. And then, although I know that the entrances don't have to be a DA compliant, I sh probably should have asked this of you earlier. Mr. Walker on the sidewalks and everything that's leading around the complex, they will be compliant with the a DA corners on in any spots.  
Speaker 8     01:02:02    Yeah, from access from the parking lot and around the buildings is,  
Speaker 10    01:02:07    Is right. Okay. I meant to ask that earlier.  
Speaker 8     01:02:08    No, there's no stairs. Yeah, there are, there are two locations where you need a couple of stairs to get from, from the, the walkways around the buildings out to the public street, but there's also areas where you can just walk, you know, where the stairs aren't required.  
Speaker 10    01:02:24    Right, right, right. But the way the sidewalks are made in like in town, I mean I, I don't even know the mayor could chime in on this. Like the, the common spaces, let's say between, as I look at the screen on the left top and bottom building, those little walkways there, I guess they'll all be flat and then there'll be from the sidewalk that butts up against the parking spots, those blue areas are the handicap accessible. Is that where the dip is for like wheelchairs? Yep. Right here, right?  
Speaker 8     01:03:02    Yeah. Right here and then and yeah, and then it, it's all, it's all fully a DA all the way around.  
Speaker 10    01:03:06    Yeah. Okay. Thank you. With  
Speaker 8     01:03:08    The exception of the front stoops.  
Speaker 10    01:03:09    Right. No, I understand. And I know that that does not have to be compliant in that way. Then the, I guess one of the other questions I had is, well, maybe I should frame this a different way. It, it was there also some sort of issue with including garages on this site that that sort of precluded that, I mean was it just not given any thought because of the design being a box and it being sort of, I mean you don't have a a, I guess no, no access on the outsides. There is, is that the reason why there's no garages?  
Speaker 4     01:03:58    I would say yes. I mean they, there are townhouse projects that have separate garages, but they're detached and they're not, they're not not attached to the units. And then there are, well,  
Speaker 10    01:04:19    I just talking about a, a state like town homes that you might see where there is like one garage, right. And sort of the entrance to the left.  
Speaker 4     01:04:30    Yeah.  
Speaker 10    01:04:31    I mean it just might help with that whole recycling bin issue. But, so that is one of the, that was a sort of a concern of mine without the garage there. But I guess the, and I do have some more, so bear with me board please. Everyone on this board. Maybe not so much of the new ones know that I'm always the one who nitpicks about design. So let me back up to then the parking space too. I know that I didn't see the report, but our fire marshals were out there in terms of access for fire trucks with ease of getting in and out  
Speaker 1     01:05:22    In a meeting. Can't call, can't talk now. Tell you later.  
Speaker 10    01:05:29    Has it, do we have a report from our fire marshal I'm talking against to our team  
Speaker 12    01:05:35    Because this is a site plan, it is required to be reviewed by the fire marshal. Laura can confirm if he has approved it. Typically, if he did not, it would be in our packets, but we can get you an answer on that.  
Speaker 10    01:05:49    Okay. That would be great. And then this, let me back up. Is, is this gonna be an HOA, is there going to be an HOA who's, you know, who's digging out the folks parking here in snowstorms? How do we envision all that happening since they don't have like their own driveway? This is a communal parking lot versus driveways with garages? That's a question I have or actually I know someone who has that question.  
Speaker 6     01:06:33    No, I expect, yeah, I expect there will be a homeowner's association in connection with this proposed development for exactly those reasons.  
Speaker 10    01:06:44    And the utilities, you talked about the attic. So what utilities are going to be in that attic space and does every individual homeowner have access to the attic that is above their unit?  
Speaker 4     01:07:03    The attics, the attic space would only have a, a furnace if we, if we have two furnaces per unit, we not sure if we're going to do that yet. Plus it would have an air handler and the rest could be attic storage. We can the, the two hour fire separation walls go from the basement slab all the way up to the top of the ridge of the roof. So we can provide a pull down access for the unit just for storage.  
Speaker 10    01:07:50    Well, if the, if there's a sec, I mean if a decision's made for a second furnace, I, I'm not sure what all is involved in that. The resident would need to have access to that, is that correct?  
Speaker 4     01:08:04    Yeah, and there would be access. Right. And, and the remaining attic space would be used at at, for their storage if they wished. Okay.  
Speaker 10    01:08:14    And, and, and where are the HVAC units going to be?  
Speaker 4     01:08:20    One, one furnace in the basement and then this perhaps the second one in the attic. And you're talking about the condensers?  
Speaker 10    01:08:30    Yeah, like for air conditioning, things of that nature.  
Speaker 4     01:08:33    They, they're gonna be on outside, on the side.  
Speaker 10    01:08:37    Okay. I guess it's, let's see.  
Speaker 12    01:08:42    And those do have to be screened just so just for the record. So  
Speaker 10    01:08:47    I don't think we got that far on that right.  
Speaker 12    01:08:50    They're not put on the plan right now, but when these do come in further for permitting, we'll absolutely make sure those units are  
Speaker 10    01:08:58    Yeah, I have no doubt of that, Dawn. That and I guess one of the other questions that I had was just generally speaking, and I I don't want you to take any offenses, Mr. Winkler or you, Mr. Morse, because I know that you were talking, you know, about the interest created with the, with the peaks. But as I look at the structure itself, and, and perhaps that's why I am talking about garages and front door entrance. I'm looking at it and it looks like the kind of building you would put in the middle of a housing complex apartments, town homes. It, it feels to me and appears to me to just look, you know, like a, a box and I, you know, it doesn't feel like there's a, you know, sort of any home differentiation. There's nothing that's budding out. Like with some town homes, again, a garage might butt out a little bit and created it.  
Speaker 10    01:10:13    It feels to be like, you know, you know, set aside the peaks, which are lovely at the top. But other than that, I mean, I don't, you know, it's my opinion, and I wouldn't know if anyone else agrees with me or not, but I am been on the board since oh nine, and my biggest suggestion, complaint, whatever you wanna call it, critique of developers when they come into our town is, I don't feel that they create buildings, you know, when it comes to sort of the multi, you know, housing units there that are very interesting and or unique. And, you know, for me it's, I have a chip on my shoulder because I feel like people come into Pisca and they're like, well, you're not Uchin, Bedminster, Cranford. I could name all of them, you know, where we have to be particular about the aesthetic. And I don't believe that the aesthetic, and again, this is not meant to be, you know, in any way about someone's taste versus this is my taste. I don't believe that this aesthetic really is interesting. It looks like a box to me that has some peaks. And I can't differentiate who's space is from another space.  
Speaker 10    01:12:01    And I'm just, I mean, truly nothing is not against the applicant for doing it, because I can understand why, get as much as you can for as little as you put in, but I'm disappointed that we as a township looked at this plan and thought it was okay.  
Speaker 9     01:12:24    Yeah. And councilwoman, those are valid. This is Ron Renson. I think the thing is on, and, and I'll stand corrected by Dawn and the others, there's really no design standards within the redevelopment plan that would require a certain type. So my suggestion is, if you're gonna do a redevelopment plan, put the design standards in first. They're coming in with something and there's no deviations to this.  
Speaker 10    01:12:50    So, no, I, I get it. I mean, I, I see the application, as I said, these are my opinions, right? My thoughts  
Speaker 9     01:12:57    And absolutely valid, you know,  
Speaker 10    01:12:59    So, and the mayor knows this about me very much so that I will be the first one on this board to be picky about these things. And I've spoken up before many times at all. And I, I mean, I think it's great use of the space and all that, but I mean, as I look at it here, it, it's, you know, again, I'm, the pictures here aren't gonna be exactly how we see, but you're looking at a, a space here with a, a table and an umbrella here, it's kind of all open. It doesn't feel like there's any space for privacy here. There's no, Hey, this is mine. Like, you look at it like, I, I, I don't know. I just, this is my opinion and I hear you. Maybe I'll just have to have that conversation internally, that our redevelopment plans are gonna have to include some architectural limitations or, or specifications. Because just particularly this looks fairly generic to me, me. And that's just my honest opinion. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think that's all I have for now until we get to something next.  
Speaker 1     01:14:26    Thank you, Councilwoman Cahill. Any other comments from members of the board?  
Speaker 12    01:14:30    Madam Chair, if I may, just going back to the council woman's comment about the fire marshal, you know, we did send this to him for review back on July 7th. We never received a letter back one way or the other as to whether or not it was approved or denied. So we certainly do have to follow up with him. You know, it's very, very absolutely crucial that we have his approval. So again, just wanted tell that that has not come back to us, so we do absolutely have to follow up with him on that. Thank you, John. No, absolutely. And I, and I do agree with what you said with regard to the redevelopment plan. And as Ron stated as well, there really was no design standards. Didn't even call out the type of materials here. I don't know if there's something that can be done. Like, I don't know if there's any enhancements that can be done to these buildings to give it a little bit more, just to change that flat facade perhaps, you know, but I'm obviously we're gonna defer to Mr. Winkle on that.  
Speaker 1     01:15:38    Any other members of the board who have comments on this testimony?  
Speaker 11    01:15:42    Madam Chair, it's Mayor Wall. I just wanna add about, I'm sure the fire marshal will have a report, but I suspect that given the fact that the openness of this application right here, the fire trucks would be very easily to get around any, any side on this, on these buildings. Okay. Let's just put it this way. There won't be any, you know, access throughout both buildings.  
Speaker 1     01:16:13    Okay. Well, should we open it up to the public now?  
Speaker 5     01:16:16    Yes. Chairman,  
Speaker 1     01:16:18    Members of the public, you've heard the testimony of Mr. Wick Winkle, the architect on this project. If you have any questions regarding his testimony, would you please indicate by waving your hand or,  
Speaker 0     01:16:31    Okay. Our first know is the, the gentleman with the iPhone three again.  
Speaker 1     01:16:36    Okay, sir.  
Speaker 5     01:16:37    Okay. Can you identify yourself?  
Speaker 1     01:16:39    Please identify yourself with your name and address, please?  
Speaker 13    01:16:43    Ed Marsh, one 13 Woff Avenue. Piscataway. Go  
Speaker 1     01:16:48    Ahead. Mr. Marsh,  
Speaker 5     01:16:49    This is the time for questions of the architect.  
Speaker 13    01:16:52    Yeah. Is there any soundproofing between units?  
Speaker 4     01:16:58    Yes. Yeah, once again, it's, it's a two hour wall, which is,  
Speaker 13    01:17:05    What does that mean?  
Speaker 4     01:17:07    It means that's a fire rating that it, it's actually a double wall that has two sets of, of studs. There's, it's, it's also 12 inches thick. So in the center is an inch and a half of gypsum board with, or sheet rock. And then there is a, a wood stud wall on one side and a second wood stud wall on the other side. And in between those wood stud walls is, is a sound insulation. So these are very soundproof walls.  
Speaker 13    01:17:59    Okay. Yeah, I kind of agree with Ms. Cahill. I, I just think it looks like an apartment and, and people don't have privacy or individual parking spaces in front of their units, and I don't like it.  
Speaker 1     01:18:15    Thank you, sir.  
Speaker 13    01:18:16    Yep.  
Speaker 1     01:18:18    Any other members of the public have questions recording  
Speaker 15    01:18:21    Laura? Laura Liebowitz.  
Speaker 1     01:18:22    Okay, Ms. Liebowitz,  
Speaker 5     01:18:24    Could you identify yourself by name and address, please? Ms. Liebowitz,  
Speaker 0     01:18:34    You need to unmute?  
Speaker 15    01:18:37    Yep, I got it. Hello, this is Councilwoman Liebowitz. I live at 1 0 2 Stratton Street South. First of all, I'm excited to bring in this type of housing. I think it's important it's, you know, needed throughout our community and throughout our state. I definitely agree with Ms. Cahill about making the, the doors face forward. I think it just makes it look more enticing and less industrial. Some other suggestions maybe to change up the material from section to section. I also, you know, similar to what Ms. Cahill was saying, maybe pull one forward, push one back. Also, there's nothing around the windows. There's no shutters, there's no window boxes. Things like that could probably also soften the look.  
Speaker 15    01:19:31    And then I had another question, and I, I think it goes back to the first speaker. I know he spoke about the, the special system that is used for the trees that has the filtration and is great for the, for ground and water absorption, which I think is great. Is that something that could also be included in all of that planting, you know, and maybe make it a little bit more of a porous system, which I don't know if this is the right time for that question or not, but those are my comments at this time.  
Speaker 1     01:20:05    Thank you. Any other members of the pub?  
Speaker 8     01:20:10    Did, did I, did I need to respond to that? I mean, did, oh, I'm sorry.  
Speaker 8     01:20:14    Do you, yeah, so, so those, those units are, are, I think they're, they're $80,000, 70 to $80,000 a piece. And they're, they're a, a structural box that was kind of designed to meet NJ DEP stormwater criteria. So those are, those are specially designed for parking area runoff to absorb all the, all the typical oils, trash, things like that, grits that you might have coming off of parking lot. And, and, but, but those are, you know, they're, they're very expensive and they're, they're put in for stormwater compliance. They're not really something that you could put in, just, just put 'em in anywhere. You know, the fact that we're going from, you we're, we're going from somewhere around, I forget the exact number now, but 70 to 80 trees out there. And we're gonna have well over a hundred trees, a lot less impervious coverage, drivable riding vehicle riding surface when you, you know, get down to a formal parking lot instead of the big open gravel that's there.  
Speaker 8     01:21:26    And, and quite frankly, going from, from a gravel area that that's, that just, you know, you know, you know what a, what a what runoff from a gravel parking lot looks like, you know, it's, it's always got silt in it to a, to a formal parking lot that's paved. There won't be any silt or anything running off and going through these water, water quality boxes. That's gonna help a lot. Otherwise, I mean, just the, the amount of landscaping and, and the green area that, that you're providing is certainly gonna be substantial benefit to groundwater recharge and, and just general aesthetics.  
Speaker 1     01:22:03    Thank you very much. Are there any other members of the public who have any questions of Mr. Winkler at this time? Do you see any hands, Ms. Buckley? No. And Madam Chair. Thank you. Close.  
Speaker 6     01:22:21    So, so before we conclude with Mr. Winkler, obviously we've listened to comments of folks on the board. We've heard from some people in the audience, Mr. Winkler, is this a situation where we could try to offer some facade enhancements, such as mentioned perhaps some shutters or some window boxes just to gussy up the facade even further? Is that something you think you can work out with the applicant?  
Speaker 4     01:22:53    Yeah, we definitely could do that. We might, we might actually be able to put a little jog in the facade on the second floor, for instance, as you're looking at this rendering. And if you, you see the double gable, if, if we possibly could pull out that corner where the first gable is pull out out of a foot, cantilever out a foot, that would help break up that long expanse of siding and,  
Speaker 6     01:23:42    Alright, so, so that, that you've just mentioned that perhaps some shutters or window window boxes. Yeah. You're prepared to take another look at the plan and perhaps add a couple of those items,  
Speaker 4     01:23:53    All of that just, and, and the information about maybe changing the colors on the siding between the first floor and the second floor. Okay. We can do a, do all of these things. Alright.  
Speaker 6     01:24:06    So then for the of the board, obviously the applicant has listened to the comments. We always appreciate your comments and Mr. Winkles just indicated what the applicant would be prepared to do and he'll work on that.  
Speaker 10    01:24:21    Thank you Mr. Morrise for bringing that up and, and for asking that of the applicant and, you know, just to get back to understanding that there was no requirement here. But I do appreciate that because from my perspective, it's not about me, it's about our town and, and the types of buildings that we should hope to see being built. That's all. Thank you.  
Speaker 6     01:24:48    You're welcome.  
Speaker 1     01:24:50    Mr. Morris, do you have another witness?  
Speaker 6     01:24:53    I do not.  
Speaker 1     01:24:55    Okay. Would you like to sum up?  
Speaker 6     01:24:59    Yeah, I don't, I don't want to belabor the testimony and quite frankly, of our very accomplished witnesses, but look, the site is an area in need of redevelopment. I think this is a wonderful project for 16 age restricted units with adequate parking. And, you know, I think there, the, the besides that in and of itself, you're getting the benefit of a roadway improvement, better public safety with a sidewalk and the properties being redevelopment, which is something that the town wants. And I rarely get in front of the board. And I come in front of you folks often with a site plan where I don't need some type of variance relief. And I'm happy to be sitting here with a, a site plan that's totally in conformity with the requirements of the zoning ordinance and your redevelopment plan applicable to this property. So that being said, we thank you for listening to our testimony and we respectfully request that you grant their application for approval.  
Speaker 1     01:26:06    Well, members of the board, you heard the testimony, what, what is your desire? Would you like Mr. Winkler to go back and come before Chairman Chaill adopted plan or what?  
Speaker 5     01:26:15    Chairwoman you still need to open it to the public for comments.  
Speaker 1     01:26:18    For comments, okay. Yes, that's fine. Members of the public, would you like to make comments on the testimony you've heard from both witnesses tonight? This is your opportunity to state your comments on this application. You can do so by in waving your hand and letting us know that you wanna be heard.  
Speaker 0     01:26:39    Or if you're on a phone, it's star six  
Speaker 1     01:26:42    Oh star six on your phone.  
Speaker 0     01:26:45    No one chairwoman.  
Speaker 1     01:26:48    Okay. Close to the public. What is your pleasure? Members of the board, would you like to take a vote at this time or would you like Mr. Winkler to come back with an amended plan?  
Speaker 5     01:27:07    Madam Chairwoman, you could certainly entrust your township officials, Ms. Corcoran and the engineers and planners to review those changes on their own and go forward with this tonight. If, if it's your pleasure,  
Speaker 6     01:27:20    And that would be the applicant's request. I, I mean, I can, as you can see, we're always proceeding in good faith. I am confident that between our, our professionals and your professional staff and engineers and planners, that we can come up with something that addresses some of the concerns to your satisfaction without. And so we request that you approve the application tonight with the understanding that we could add a condition that the applicant would work with the professionals to change some of the architectural features.  
Speaker 1     01:27:58    Do we have a motion?  
Speaker 6     01:28:06    Go ahead, Dawn.  
Speaker 10    01:28:09    Madam Chair, this is Councilwoman Cahill. So I am going to offer a a, although I'm the biggest complainer about this, they are in compliance. We need this kind of housing. However, there's a couple of things and Mr. Kinneally, I forgot to mention, but we do need to get on the record, correct me if I'm wrong, that getting back to my discussion about the, the barrels, is there an ordinance about how many feet barrels need to be away from each other? I know the garbage is being taken care of by this community thing, but if there is, we, we wanna make sure that that's recorded as well. And I could be completely wrong on that one, but for approval tonight, I'm gonna offer this, but I'm gonna offer it this way, Mr. Morris, is that we approve based upon, first of all, a, you know, something in writing from our fire marshal that they've looked at the site, they can get in and out and that we have that. And also too, that the applicant comes back with some architectural changes, although they're not required to. That's gonna be my offer if anyone else wants to second it.  
Speaker 5     01:29:32    Okay. To answer your first question, if, if there is such an ordinance with regard to barrels and location, they would have to comply with that. If that changes because of what Middlesex County has done, then Piscataway Township's gonna have to revise their ordinance.  
Speaker 10    01:29:47    Thank you.  
Speaker 5     01:29:49    And, and secondly, the fire marshal report. If you act in the affirmatively this evening, certainly would be a condition of approval. They have to obtain all outside agency approvals and that would be one of them.  
Speaker 10    01:30:02    Thank you. Mr. Kenley.  
Speaker 6     01:30:06    So I'm not sure I'm clear. Are you suggesting that we would need to come back before the board or that we could work out the architecturals?  
Speaker 10    01:30:12    No, you'll work it out with our professionals. Okay. But it's a, it's a, it's an indicator to our professionals that, that, you know, I'm not gonna be there. Right. I in good faith, as you said, Mr. Morris, which I do believe that that's what the applicant have is that they'll give some more consideration to the aesthetic of, of the building.  
Speaker 6     01:30:36    Yes. That's what we had just represented. And we don't have a problem with the condition that we work with your professionals to try to gussy up the architectural flare.  
Speaker 10    01:30:48    I appreciate that.  
Speaker 0     01:30:50    Is that a technical term There? Gussy up.  
Speaker 6     01:30:54    I just invented it. It is. Now  
Speaker 0     01:31:00    We need a second. Madam Chair, Dawn Corkin. I'll second. Thank you. No call Ms. Mayor Wahler. Yes. Councilwoman Cahill?  
Speaker 10    01:31:11    Yes. Ms.  
Speaker 0     01:31:11    Corcoran? Yes. Ms. Order? Yes. Mr. Atkins? Yes. Mr. Hammed? Yes. And Madam Chair? Yes.  
Speaker 5     01:31:26    Madam Chair. In anticipation of this vote tonight, since it was a fully compliant application with no deviations, I talked to the applicant and at their request prepared a resolution for your consideration. It indicates that the applicant will satisfy all of the township professionals. So I think that that covers not only their recommendations with regard to engineering and planning, but architecturally they have to work with your professionals.  
Speaker 0     01:31:56    Do I have a second? Do I, first of all,  
Speaker 1     01:31:58    We need a motion. We need a motion. Do I have a motion, please? I don  
Speaker 0     01:32:08    Madam Chair. I'll make the motion.  
Speaker 1     01:32:10    Do I have a second?  
Speaker 0     01:32:13    Second.  
Speaker 1     01:32:14    Councilwoman Cahill. Roll call.  
Speaker 0     01:32:17    Mayor Wahler? Yes. Councilwoman Cahill? Yes. Ms. Corcoran? Yes. Ms. Saunders. Ms. Saunders? Yes. Yes. Ms. Hammed? Yes. And Madam Chair?  
Speaker 1     01:32:32    Yes.  
Speaker 6     01:32:34    All right. Well thank you very much for your time, ladies and gentlemen. Always a pleasure to see all of you. Well, enjoy the rest of the summer. Enjoy. Thank you.  
Speaker 1     01:32:41    Enjoy. Same to you. Thank you.  
Speaker 0     01:32:43    Have a good night. Thanks.  
Speaker 1     01:32:45    Bye  
Speaker 0     01:32:49    All. We need a motion. Alright.  
Speaker 1     01:32:51    We need a motion to adjourn, reminding ourselves that our site meeting is on August the 27th. So move Madam Chair  
Speaker 0     01:32:58    Second.  
Speaker 1     01:33:00    Excuse me, mayor.  
Speaker 0     01:33:02    All in favor?  
Speaker 1     01:33:03    Aye. Aye. Aye,  
Speaker 0     01:33:06    Aye.  
Speaker 1     01:33:08    Okay.  
Speaker 0     01:33:09    In two weeks.  
Speaker 1     01:33:11    Have a great rest of the summer.  
Speaker 0     01:33:13    Good everyone. Good night everyone.