Transcript for Piscataway Planning meeting on February 14 2024

Note: Transcripts are generated by rev.ai and may not be fully accurate. Please listen to the recording (below) if you feel any text is inaccurate.

Speaker 0     00:00:00    Ready Madam chair.  
Speaker 1     00:00:02    Thank you. Good evening. The Piscataway Township Planning Board meeting will please come to order. Adequate notice of this meeting was provided in the following ways. Notice published in the Courier News notice posted on the bulletin board of the municipal building notice made available to the Township clerk notice as sent to the Courier News and to the star ledger. Mr. Barlow, would you please re recite the open public meeting? Notice,  
Speaker 0     00:00:33    Tom, you're muted  
Speaker 2     00:00:36    Quite the notice if I was muted throughout. Okay. Adequate notice of this meeting has been provided as required under Chapter 2 31 PL 1975. This meeting is being done through an online meeting platform. In keeping with the guidelines that have been disseminated by the Department of Community Affairs, the planning board has tried its best to comply with the Open Public Meetings Act. There will be a public comment period for all attendees. Each member of the public shall have only one opportunity to speak during each public portion. As technology does not allow us to know if there are multiple callers on an individual phone line or logged in user account. We ask that if you wish to speak, that you log in or dial in separately so that we can recognize you as a separate individual. If you wish to speak, please raise your hand on the Zoom app or if you have called in on the phone, press nine to unmute. When it is your turn to speak, you will be called upon either by name or phone number. Please speak at this time, you'll be asked your name and address and will be sworn in prior to your question or comment. There will be a, a, a session or a section for comment after each witness that testifies. Thank you.  
Speaker 1     00:01:56    Thank you. Roll call please. Ms. Buckley.  
Speaker 0     00:02:01    Mayor. Wahler.  
Speaker 1     00:02:03    Present  
Speaker 0     00:02:04    Councilwoman Cahill. Here. Ms. Corcoran. Here. Reverend Kinneally. Present Mr. Atkins?  
Speaker 2     00:02:14    Here,  
Speaker 0     00:02:16    Foster. Here. Mr. Ahmed Madam chair  
Speaker 1     00:02:21    Here. The American flag is visible over my right shoulder. Can we all salute the flag? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I'm not hearing everyone. Is everyone Yep. Able to hear? Okay. Mr.  
Speaker 2     00:02:58    Madam. chair. chair. Since Ms. Saunders is not present with us today, I'll swear in the board's planner, you raise your right hand. You swear the testimony you'll give before this board will be the whole truth, so help you God. I do. Thank you. Madam chair.  
Speaker 1     00:03:15    Any changes to the agenda tonight? Mr. Barlow?  
Speaker 2     00:03:18    There are no changes to the agenda. Madam chair.  
Speaker 1     00:03:21    Thank you.  
Speaker 0     00:03:22    Mr. Ahmed has joined the meeting.  
Speaker 1     00:03:25    Thank you. Can I have a motion to pay the duly audited bills?  
Speaker 3     00:03:33    Madam chair Reverend Kinneally. I make a motion to pay the bills.  
Speaker 1     00:03:37    Do I have a second?  
Speaker 4     00:03:39    Dawn Corcoran. I'll second that.  
Speaker 1     00:03:41    Thank you. Roll call please.  
Speaker 0     00:03:43    Mayor? Wahler? Yes. Councilwoman Cahill. Yes. Ms. Corcoran?  
Speaker 1     00:03:50    Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:03:51    Reverend Kinneally. Yes. Mr. Atkins?  
Speaker 2     00:03:54    Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:03:54    Mr. Ahmed? Yes. Sorry. And Madam chair?  
Speaker 1     00:04:00    Yes. Item number eight, adoption of resolution to memorialize action. Taken on January the 10th, 2024.  
Speaker 3     00:04:11    Madam chair. Reverend can make a motion that to memorialize action taken on January 10th, 2024.  
Speaker 1     00:04:19    Do I have a second?  
Speaker 4     00:04:21    Dawn. Corcoran. I'll second.  
Speaker 1     00:04:23    Thank you. Roll call.  
Speaker 0     00:04:25    Mayor Wahler. Yes. Councilwoman Cahill. Yes. Ms. Corcoran?  
Speaker 4     00:04:30    Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:04:32    Reverend Kinneally. Yes. Mr. Atkins? Yes. Mr. Ahmed? Yes. And Madam chair?  
Speaker 1     00:04:39    Yes. Item number nine, adoption of the minutes from the regular meeting of January 10th.  
Speaker 3     00:04:49    Madam, chair of Evan Kinneally, the adoption of the minutes for January 10th, 2024.  
Speaker 1     00:04:56    Thank you. Second, please.  
Speaker 4     00:04:58    Dawn Corcoran. I'll second  
Speaker 1     00:05:01    Roll call  
Speaker 0     00:05:02    Mayor Wahler. Yes. Councilwoman Cahill. Yes. Ms. Corcoran?  
Speaker 4     00:05:08    Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:05:09    Reverend Kinneally.  
Speaker 3     00:05:10    Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:05:11    Mr. Atkins? Yes. Mr. Ahmed? Yes. And Madam chair?  
Speaker 1     00:05:17    Yes. Item number 10. Discussion regarding the area in need of redevelopment at foresight. The redevelopment study for block 37 0 2 lot 1.02.  
Speaker 2     00:05:32    Madam chair. This is a a a matter in order to retain foresight planning to assist the planning board to determine a preliminary investigation on lot 1.02, block 3 7 0 2 as an area in need of redevelopment. So this would just be to authorize foresight to prepare a plan for the planning board if the board has any questions.  
Speaker 1     00:06:02    Does the board have any questions regarding this? If not, I'll take a motion to authorize  
Speaker 4     00:06:09    Madam chair. Dawn Corcoran. I make the motion to authorize foresight Planning to amend the area needs study.  
Speaker 1     00:06:18    Do I have a second  
Speaker 0     00:06:20    Chair? Reverend Kinneally? I'll second it.  
Speaker 1     00:06:22    Thank you. Roll call please.  
Speaker 0     00:06:25    Mayor? Wahler? Yes. Councilwoman Cahill? Yes. Ms. Corcoran?  
Speaker 4     00:06:31    Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:06:32    Reverend Kinneally? Yes. Mr. Atkins?  
Speaker 2     00:06:35    Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:06:36    Mr. Ahmed and Madam chair?  
Speaker 1     00:06:44    Yes. Yes. Okay. Mr. Ahmed? Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:06:48    I said yes. Sorry. Yes.  
Speaker 1     00:06:49    Thank you.  
Speaker 0     00:06:51    Item  
Speaker 1     00:06:51    Item number 1121 PB 31 m and M at hose lane. Phase two LLC Ms. Irina Elgar. You may proceed. Would you enter your appearance please? Can we hear  
Speaker 0     00:07:15    I Irina you're muted.  
Speaker 2     00:07:18    I know she was here before. Yeah, my, oh, there she is. Sorry,  
Speaker 5     00:07:23    I was trying to get my camera on. I was trying to get my, I Sorry about that.  
Speaker 1     00:07:29    Okay, you're on.  
Speaker 5     00:07:31    I, I apologize. Irena Elgar from Weingarten Law Firm on behalf of Eminem at Hose Lane Phase two. We're here for a GDP application. The property is 75.6 acres and it's located in your town center zone. It requires us to come before the board for A GDP, and that's consistent with the MLUL, which is section 45 of the MLUL. And just to explain a little bit about gs, for those who are not familiar with this type of application, it's a little different than a site plan application. The GDP is merely conceptual in nature. It gives us some flexibility. This enables us to proceed to, you know, full engineering for the project and presented at a later date with more specif specificity during our site plan application. According to the township's ordinances, the GS required before the applicant can proceed to site plan. So this is literally the first step in a much longer process.  
Speaker 5     00:08:41    This project, as some of you may know, what has been in the township's housing element fair share plan since 2017 and was recognized in the township's 2017 final judgment of compliance as an inclusionary development. And it's intended to satisfy the township's third round affordable housing obligation. We're proposing it's a 1,101 units 122 of those are to be affordable in compliance with that judgment of comp of the, of proposed, the Township adopted the town center zoning specifically for in compliance with that judgment. So the governing body here determines the intensity of this development. And m and m had originally filed an application in 2021 for A GDP and site plan. However, shortly thereafter, the Township designated the site is an area in need of redevelopment. We have trying, have been trying to work out a redevelopment plan for the past couple years. It hasn't been successful obviously, but it's been a long process and we would like to proceed with our project in accordance with the GDP and the town center zoning before we proceed with full engineering.  
Speaker 5     00:10:07    You'll hear from our witnesses that this GDP does comply with TC zone requirements. It's as of right, there's no variances. The level of detail in our submission is consistent with the MLUL and the TC zone requirements. We haven't received any letters from the professionals requesting additional information. We, we have received one review letter, sorry, from DNR, indicating that at least our stormwater design is competent and sufficient for GDP purposes. In addition, the TCS ordinance itself indicates that certain details are left to be determined at site plan. That's part of the reason we're we held off on doing a traffic impact study. We don't have any architecturals here and we don't present any landscaping definitive plans, but we will during site plan. The TC zone calls for a mixture of retail, commercial and a mix of housing types. You're gonna hear with regard to which types of housing we're pr, we're proposing, including stacked in rural town, town homes, multi-family, as well as single family homes.  
Speaker 5     00:11:21    So without any further ado, well, I, I just wanna tell you who we have here today to testify and that's, we're gonna have Ron Oba, he's the director of engineering and development for m and m. He's gonna walk through the nuts and bolts of the GDP with further detail. And then we're gonna have a traffic engineer, Matt Setler from Stonefield Engineering, who's gonna provide testimony concerning the site's, access on site circulation and parking. And then last, but certainly not least, Ms. Christine Cone from Cone Consulting and she's gonna walk through the GDP requirements as well as the TC zone requirements. So without further ado, if I don't see on Beck, but I, you probably see him before I would. Right? I see him. I see him. You see him? Okay.  
Speaker 2     00:12:17    Mr. Oba, if you could state your name, spell your last name, and give us your professional address, please.  
Speaker 6     00:12:24    Sure. Again, it's Ronald Beck, A-U-L-E-N-B-A-C-H, and that's 1260 Stelton Road, Piscataway, New Jersey 0 8 8 5 4.  
Speaker 2     00:12:36    You raise your right hand. You swear the testimony good before this board will be the whole truth, so help you God.  
Speaker 6     00:12:40    I do.  
Speaker 2     00:12:41    You're a witness, Ms. Elgar.  
Speaker 5     00:12:44    Thank you. So Mr. Elba, if you could walk through the history of the project, the history of the, the site itself, and then, you know, proceed with regard to the GDP.  
Speaker 6     00:12:57    Sure. Laura, do I share a screen or do you guys  
Speaker 5     00:13:01    Share? You can share the screen.  
Speaker 6     00:13:02    Okay. If you bear with me for one second  
Speaker 2     00:13:06    And Ms. Elger, just any exhibits that we're gonna put up on the screen, we'll refer to the first one as a one and if your witness can identify it and then we'll just keep going as they proceed. Okay.  
Speaker 5     00:13:19    Understood. So Ron, if you could identify Exhibit A one.  
Speaker 6     00:13:25    Sure. Exhibit A one is a overall aerial photograph of the site in question. As indicated on the aerial itself. We have a 75.611 acre site. It basically starts office styles, wraps along the back along the residential neighbor to neighborhood, comes back around the parking lot, follows the road main road out to Knights Bridge, down Knights Bridge around the NJ DOT detention Basin. And then comes up hose lane to Erickson Drive and then follows Erickson Drive back and then cuts across the parking lot around the tower and eventually works its way back out to Skiles. So the 75.61 acres is primarily located in the rear, this parking lot and this area over here.  
Speaker 5     00:14:21    Great. And so next we're gonna mark a two and if you could explain what that is. Sure.  
Speaker 6     00:14:34    A two is entitled Concept Rendering Skyway Town Center with a date of February 9th, 2024. This is just a rendering of the GDP plan and as I indicated, what I'll do is I'll start in the southern southwest corner of the site again, which is located in this corner here in accordance with the town center zone. We are required to provide a minimum of 10 single family houses as a buffer between our development and the residential neighborhood to the west. We are providing 20 single family dwellings. It's important to notice that one of the concerns and requirements is that this does not have access into the mixed use development itself has its own primary access off to the Southern. One of the other requirements is that we provide a pedestrian path from the adjoining neighborhood into the development as well as a walkway that runs along the wetlands here and eventually works its way back into the town center so that anybody in this residential neighborhood to the west to the south can access the site and get over into the mixed use or the retail portion of the site.  
Speaker 6     00:15:45    Again, starting off on the southern portion of it, we have what's referred to as the row townhouses. These are two story or two and a half story traditional townhouses garages. These are lined up parallel with skis and then wrap around the parking lot. There's 156 of these row style townhouses located in the southern quadrant as you work your way north through the site. What's labeled here as number three, these are the stacked townhouse product. These is, this is a three story stacked product, again with garages and units on the first floor all the way up to the third floor, there is 208 of these units. There's a clubhouse with amenities located over in the, I guess the northwest corner of the site. And then as you've worked your way through the site, again, number two again is listed here. These are traditional town homes. This makes up the portion of the 1 56.  
Speaker 6     00:16:44    Again, these are the two story product or two and a half story product located basically off this large parking lot here. And but up to the, where we have the amenities and open space, which I will go into later. And then we get into the northeast corner of the site, which is the, the mixed use portion of the site. In this site we have 100,900 square feet of commercial slash retail located in here. They are located in these two buildings, a standalone retail buildings. They're located in this U-shape mixed use building, which has residential above retail, as well as these two buildings that flank the public plaza. Again, those are residential above retail. The building located closest to Hose Lane as well as Knight Bridge is a mixed use building as well. And then this building labeled as number four is a straight up residential apartment building.  
Speaker 6     00:17:39    As part of the site plan itself or, or the GDP plan, we have proposed several amenities located throughout the site. As is board's aware amenities, both passive and active, are kind of fluid as you move through the site plan process and even through the development, these things are constantly changing as far as what the needs are of the proposed future residents. For example, this site is containing three pickleball courts and, and again, if the board's familiar years ago, five years ago, nobody knew what a pickleball court really was. It seems to be what the residents are demanding. As well as we have several tot lots. We have a dog run, we have an open space, and more importantly, we have this number eight, which is a 20,600 square foot public plaza. And again, that's a requirement of the TC zone. There will be a clubhouse located in either building five, one of these two buildings here for the apartment section, which is the piece up in here.  
Speaker 6     00:18:39    And then obviously I spoke about the clubhouse that's located in the northwest corner of the site. There is access, which Matt will go more into. We have access connection at the circle of night bridge where the existing driveway comes out of the site, access off Ericsson Drive, which is a existing signalize intersection as well as the single families off to the south. And then a connection just behind the utility company building located off of Skiles here. We have a connection into the site there. So we have multiple access points throughout the site. One of the concerns that the town raised was this straightaway here. We introduced a roundabout as a traffic calming to slow people down as they come through there. But again, when we get further into the site plan design and further into your professional's reviews, I'm sure this plan is gonna be tweaked several times before it actually gets to a point where it's, you know, a site plan approval. If, if I may, the existing tower, which is located here, number seven, that's an existing tower that will be converted to residential that will contain 194 units. So as Ms. Elgard indicated in her opening, there's 194 units located in the tower. There is 907 units located in the balance of the property of which 122 will be affordable and 785 will be market.  
Speaker 6     00:20:09    I think that  
Speaker 5     00:20:10    Really covers  
Speaker 6     00:20:11    The, the, the overall rendering itself.  
Speaker 5     00:20:15    And Ron, if you can go into the density of the project itself and how we get to the bonus density and I think we're at 12 units to the acre at this point, right?  
Speaker 6     00:20:26    That's correct. As Ms. Elgar indicated that the zone allows for eight units to the acre, straight up density, but it also has a provision for qualifying Main Street commercial. If you provide a hundred thousand square feet of commercial, you're entitled to a 12 unit to the acre density bonus. 75.61 acres equals 907.332 units, which is what we're proposing. We're proposing 907 units to meet the ordinance for the density under what would be Requalified commercial and allow us that bon that bonus of 12 units to the acre.  
Speaker 2     00:21:04    Mr. Aback, Ms. Elder, if I can just interrupt for one sec, I just had a quick question. 122 affordable 7 85 market grant that I wasn't great at math. I think that's 9 0 7. I thought there was 1101.  
Speaker 6     00:21:19    Yes, there is. Well there's 194 in the tower that don't get money.  
Speaker 2     00:21:23    Okay. You just broke that down. Okay, I got you.  
Speaker 5     00:21:26    And, and the 194 aren't part of the density calculation according to the ordinance, so that's how we but, but it is for a thousand 101, but we get to nine seven because of the bonuses, so  
Speaker 2     00:21:43    Understood. Okay, so it's 9 0 7 plus the tower,  
Speaker 5     00:21:46    Correct?  
Speaker 2     00:21:47    Correct. Okay, no problem. Thank you.  
Speaker 6     00:21:50    You're welcome. Irene, I'm not sure.  
Speaker 5     00:21:58    So if you could just go into somewhat of the timing of the development and whether we're gonna be phasing or whether we plan on proceeding with the entire development.  
Speaker 6     00:22:12    Well, typically, again, once, once we get through site plan approval, we would phase it. This is too big of a project to try to take undertake as one overall development. A detailed phasing plan would be part of our site plan submission to show exactly, you know, because one of the struggles that you have when you do the phasing is making sure that the infrastructure can stand on its own, if you will, as you go through the different sections. So you have to make sure utilities are in storm, water management is in place and everything. So it's a very detailed phasing plan that would, would go in as part of the site plan approval to talk about when we're gonna start the development and what comes first, second, third, fourth as you move through the development and this different phases itself.  
Speaker 5     00:22:56    Okay.  
Speaker 6     00:22:57    The one thing I will add, just for the record is as I indicated before, this wooded area here that's remaining unchanged, if you will, we do have a current NJ DOP letter of interpretation for this area that outlines exactly where the wetlands are. It's a 50 foot buffer associated with those wetlands. Obviously anything we do in this area will be subject to NJ DEP permitting, whether it's buffer averaging or GP permits for any discharge or disturbance in the wetlands. And obviously that application would be made to the DEP once we, again get in further down the line and get into full engineering drawings and we know exactly what those disturbances and discharge points are.  
Speaker 5     00:23:44    As also, just one other question with regard to the pedestrian and bikeway connection, if you could just go over that briefly.  
Speaker 6     00:23:50    Sure. As, as part of the, the, the TC zone, it requires bikeways pedestrian access walkways, and we have a series of both multi-use paths similar to what's existing on hose lane today. Multi-use paths that run through the entire site. There's sidewalks that run that connect the various neighborhoods to each other and run completely through. I know it's tough to see on this area. You can see the white lines that kind of go down in front of all the units. That's the sidewalks that's adjacent to the street. So there's a complete sidewalk network that would get you from the very southwest corner of the site to the very northeast corner of the site. There's connections to get you through, whether it be through a multipurpose path or whether it be through the sidewalk connections.  
Speaker 5     00:24:34    Okay, great. Thank you. I don't have any further questions. If members of the board have any questions,  
Speaker 1     00:24:41    Members of the board, do you have any questions of Mr. Auerbach hearing? No one has any questions. I'd like to open it to the public. Ms. Buckley, would you see if there's anyone, members of the public who would like to question Mr. Auerbach?  
Speaker 2     00:24:57    Mr. Ach, if you could unshare your screen.  
Speaker 6     00:24:59    Oh, sorry.  
Speaker 2     00:25:00    No problem. Sorry. And if, and if I may, ladies and gentlemen, if you do have any questions, let's try and focus them on Mr. Allen's testimony. If there's something related or something you you want to hear from one of the other experts. Let's wait till they actually testify. Okay. So I'll let Ms. Buckley handle the, the hands that are up.  
Speaker 4     00:25:36    Matt Madam chair, I'm sorry, before we open it to the public, this is Dawn Corcoran. May I just ask a couple of questions of Mr. Beck? I apologize, Ron, I'm sorry. Did you, did you speak as to where the location of the affordable housing units would be located? In which particular buildings?  
Speaker 6     00:25:54    I did not Dawn, to your point, they will be located in the, either the mixed use buildings or the standalone apartment building in the north northeast portion of the site. Not in the single families, not in the town home units.  
Speaker 4     00:26:09    But what they will be scattered amongst several buildings. They won't be all located within one building is, is that correct?  
Speaker 6     00:26:15    That's correct. They will be distributed throughout the buildings.  
Speaker 4     00:26:19    And then you may have mentioned this with regard to the number of clubhouses. Did you say that there would be a total of two?  
Speaker 6     00:26:28    As of right now, that's what we anticipate. Okay. The one located in the back for the, the townhouse section and then one located in the north corner for the, you know, the, what I call the apartment section.  
Speaker 4     00:26:41    And one last question. Sure. I know you, you briefly discussed the phasing of the project. Is there currently a timing schedule in place?  
Speaker 6     00:26:55    Well, again, as I spoke about it, it's hard to put a schedule on this because obviously we have to, you know, if, if we're successful here, we have to move to site plans due to site plans we have to apply to N-J-D-E-P, all outside agencies. In the perfect world, once we start again, we would have a phasing where we'd start the commercial. We do have a letter of intent from a, a major retailer for one of the buildings on this site itself. So, you know, certainly start some of the commercial stuff, probably start some of the apartments because at some point we need to bring, start bringing the affordables on depending on the scheduling for the, the balance of the, what I'll call the balance of the market units.  
Speaker 6     00:27:38    So I could see where we'd start in the, the north quadrant of the site itself, at least partly, and then maybe start something located towards the rear. But you know, Dawn, I, I will, and I did speak about it earlier, I mean obviously everything all depends on, once we get into full engineering, utilities, storm water infrastructure, all that stuff that needs to be put in doesn't make sense to start from the left hand side if the right hand side needs to be built first and vice versa. So we'll get more into details with that, but it's our intention to start probably in a mixed use.  
Speaker 4     00:28:09    There was a project overall schedule submitted back in, gosh, December of 2021. Is it fair to say that that's something that needs to be revised at this point in time?  
Speaker 5     00:28:23    Is that the schedule that says the construction, it's gonna com be complete within five years after we get all agency approvals? Is that the one? It's,  
Speaker 4     00:28:31    It's, yeah.  
Speaker 5     00:28:32    Okay. So Ron, is that fair to say that that's still consistent or  
Speaker 6     00:28:38    Yeah, I would say it's consistent. I mean really, I don't wanna say nothing's Chaill a lot hasn't changed, you know, maybe some buildings moved around and some, some, you know, tweaks in the concept plan, but that that schedule, the number of units, the number of retail is consistent. So I would say that's probably accurate.  
Speaker 4     00:28:52    Okay, thank you. You're  
Speaker 6     00:28:53    Welcome.  
Speaker 1     00:28:54    I have a question. Are there any other recreational areas other than pickleball planned for site?  
Speaker 6     00:29:01    Yes, as I indicated Madam chair, there's several areas that we have earmarked, if you will, for tot lots. We have a, a large open field. We do have a dog run planned. We do have the public, the 20,000 square foot public plaza. There are areas throughout the site that are scheduled for recreation, both passive and active.  
Speaker 1     00:29:25    They'll be developed in detail for later.  
Speaker 6     00:29:28    That's correct.  
Speaker 1     00:29:30    Okay, thank you. You're welcome. Hello  
Speaker 7     00:29:34    Madam chair, this is Mika Apte, I'm the board planner. May I ask a couple of questions?  
Speaker 1     00:29:39    You may go  
Speaker 6     00:29:40    Ahead Ms.  
Speaker 7     00:29:42    Apti. Thank you. Thank you Madam chair. Ron, just a couple of clarification points I wanna make. So in terms of the density calculation, I believe the zone permits, you know, regular density of eight dwelling units to the acre and the updated the additional density of 12 dwelling units to the acre for the required square footage of qualifying commercial areas. As we calculate that by eight dwelling units to the acre, you are allowed, forget the exact number, but for the 12 dwelling units to the acre, you are allowed say, for the lack of better word, around 303 additional units that comes out to about 100,900 square feet of commercial space. Based on what you've shown us in the GDP, is that the exact square footage that is being proposed?  
Speaker 6     00:30:42    That's correct. Okay,  
Speaker 7     00:30:44    Thank you. In terms of the type of units, would we be getting a bedroom distribution on what type of units and how many bedrooms are being proposed for each unit?  
Speaker 6     00:30:57    Absolutely.  
Speaker 7     00:30:59    Okay. And that would be provided during the GDP  
Speaker 6     00:31:04    Or during the site plan?  
Speaker 5     00:31:05    No. I'm sorry, is that, sorry miss, do you mean in terms of the affordables or do you mean in terms of the market rate with regards to the affordables? It would probably be according to the UAC regulations. So we can provide that.  
Speaker 7     00:31:18    Yeah, I, I mean for the general complete, because I believe at the GDP you need to know the number of units also, you know, do you have the bedroom distribution as to how many two bedrooms, how many one bedrooms or  
Speaker 6     00:31:35    Yeah, we could, we can certainly provide that to you, Amika. I don't have the number off the top of my head, but certainly as, as this board had indicated earlier, you know, I can get that number for you.  
Speaker 7     00:31:45    Okay, thank you. You welcome. And the, in terms of following up with Ms Cochran's question on the phasing, I believe one of the requirement itself in the TC zone, which permits a GDP plan is requiring a phasing plan. I understand it is a GDP concept, nature concept, but even with the MLUL requirement, a phasing plan needs to be provided because the general outlook of A GDP is a general development over the course of couple of years. So in order to know, you know, how that development is to occur over the course of time, a phasing plan is more or less a requirement of A GDP plan. Something that we can work with, you know, and get provided by you as we move along in this application.  
Speaker 6     00:32:47    Yeah, I defer to both Christine and Irene about what's allowed, what's not allowed, but yeah, yeah, if I need to provide it, we, we'd be happy to provide that to you.  
Speaker 5     00:32:56    All right. I think I, I guess where we stand it looks like that, you know, we're going to be able to provide it, we need to do more of the engineering to be able to provide it in earnest, I think is really what we're looking at because at this point we can say, you know, this phase is gonna go first and you know, obviously it's really hard to say because we need to continue with the engineering part of it.  
Speaker 7     00:33:23    Understood. In terms of the commercial type of users that are being proposed, could you, I know there is no exact, you know, what type of exact use, but could you give board an idea of what type of commercial users are you envisioning for this area?  
Speaker 6     00:33:44    Yeah, certainly, and I could tell you what we've, you know, kind of talked about. And again, I will again preface it with obviously what's going on in the world. It's hard to determine what's going on with retailers. There's still a need is for what we call food and entertainment personal service, you know, the couple of commercial type uses that haven't been pushed out by the Amazons and, and the home shopping networks of the world. So personal service, certainly, you know, and I always hate to give ideas because you know, everybody, if I say one thing, somebody says, we got 10 of those in town. But, you know, personal service, whether it be a, a nail salon, a hair salon, you know, a bagel store, a pizzeria, those are types of neighborhood personal service stuff. We are slating the two larger boxes, the one immediately on the corner of Ericsson Drive hose lane as a pharmacy with a drive through what's permitted the building immediately to the right of that would be a, a small market, if you will, or a small supermarket, you know, type of building again, what's required by the, the TC zone and then the balance of the buildings that are part of the mixed use.  
Speaker 6     00:34:49    They're typically your 60 to 70 foot depth type of retailer that's personal service. It could be, you know, again, like I said, a food entertainment, which is, is big. It could be some kind of other personal service is what we envision there.  
Speaker 7     00:35:04    Okay. To go back to your point, just want to quickly clarify regarding the pharmacy that may happen on one of the larger boxes that you've indicated, did you mention that it might be a drive-through?  
Speaker 6     00:35:20    That's correct.  
Speaker 7     00:35:21    Right. I i, I will look into it a little further, but I do not see that as a outright permitted used DC zone.  
Speaker 6     00:35:32    It's listed separately in the town center zone. Okay. It speaks later on, you can look, look into it and we can provide the two, it speaks later on where it says about the drive-throughs, except for pharmacies and banks is what I think it says. I don't have it in front of me right now. I think I read  
Speaker 5     00:35:45    Those. Okay. I can help. I can help. It's so, Ms. Ty, it's, there is pharmacies and drugstore are permitted under the qualifying main commercial uses. It's, what is it, section 21 dash 32.22 F seven to be exact. And then under accessory uses beneath that it says under six drive through facilities for banks, pharmacies and drugstore are permitted. It does say your prohibited uses drive through facilities except as permitted for banks and pharmacies as well.  
Speaker 7     00:36:22    So thank you. Thanks for that. No problem. And that's the only type of use that is contemplated with a drive through? That's  
Speaker 6     00:36:28    Correct. Okay.  
Speaker 7     00:36:29    Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you Madam chair,  
Speaker 8     00:36:32    Chair, Madam chair. I, I do apologize because now that Ms. Apti has asked some questions, it's prompted some for me. So if, if, if I may Madam chair. I have. Thank you. Thank you very much. I, I appreciate that. So I guess this question could be of Mr. oba or if the attorney wants to answer. So the question that was posed by Ms. Apti about the, the bedroom distribution one to two bedrooms and you know, it's still a little questionable as to, you know, if you'll provide it during the GDP or if you will, when you will, but I guess my question is then is if it's not provided and it's, and we wait for the site plan, this board is gonna have input onto that. So I guess I'm asking can that, can we confirm tonight that the bedroom distribution plan will be provided during this process before the site plan?  
Speaker 8     00:37:54    And also, I guess my second question was in terms of the commercial locations and the plan is it late is laid out now? You know, I'm gonna have concerns and I don't know if Ms. Corcoran or our attorney wants to answer this, but you know, there during those public sessions, right, I think there was two, two moments when the public was invited to come look at the plants at the YMCA. You know, I think I had spoken to perhaps you, Mr. Obeck and some others about the concern we have for the, the, the look of what that campus will be in its finality as compared to what it looks like now. Right? We have sort of this court more corporate campus, we understand this is gonna become mixed retail and residential, but we're also still here very concerned, or at least I am and I think probably a lot of folks here is with the, the frontage of that retail space. I have voiced this concern before and it is something I will not waiver on, is that we're not gonna be full front retail out in your face with signage. Just not, I will definitely be standing on this firmly. So I need to understand with the plan that's laid out here, what is the plan for changes and interpretations of what that's gonna look like.  
Speaker 5     00:39:45    And if I just can point out a few things with regard to the TC zone ordinance itself. And I can appreciate the concerns and I can appreciate the questions. And just with regard to GDPs versus site plans, the zone itself, the, the ordinance itself provides that we will provide architecturals, but that's during the site plan. So the look and the feel of it is not something that's relevant for the GDP purposes. Same thing with the bedroom distribution with regard to the market rate, that's something that, you know, it's part of site plan, it's not part of the GDP itself and you know, to the extent that the town may have some input into market rate bedroom distributions, I'm not sure how much input the town can have because just under coa, that's something that's really up to the developer in terms of an inclusionary development in terms of how many three bedroom, two bedroom in terms of the market rate.  
Speaker 8     00:40:57    Does that, if I, if I might Ms. Elgar, is that how you pronounce your say? Yeah. Okay. So does that also pertain to the location of the affordable housing? I think somewhere along the way we had seen some sort of suggestion that they were all gonna be located in perhaps one building, which,  
Speaker 5     00:41:26    Well, that's not what we're proposing. Okay. I'm not sure where that has come from. I, I don't know that that was ever suggested, but I'm not sure.  
Speaker 6     00:41:34    Yeah, I I I'm sorry. Yeah, ahead. I'm sorry, Ms. Just, just so clarification. The, the prior GDP plan, I believe, and I don't have it in front of me prior GDP plan had a hundred percent affordable buildings over a long Knights bridge, which obviously was an issue at the Township, bought the retention, which I, I don't know if I can't speak for Ms. Corcoran is that, that's why she brought it up. But it was something that was mentioned a few years ago, which is why we testified tonight, today would be dispersed throughout those five or six buildings in the Northern quadrant.  
Speaker 8     00:42:05    Okay. Thank you. Thank you for the clarification. And a lot of that too is also for our residents to understand what this process is versus a site plan.  
Speaker 5     00:42:16    And I, I appreciate the questions 'cause definitely it clarifies it for everybody.  
Speaker 1     00:42:24    Any other questions from the board? Ms. Buckley, would you check with the public, I'd like to open this portion again to the public. Anyone wishing to question Mr. Den back regarding his testimony? Would you raise your hand and please let it be seen that you won't have a question. Ms. Buckley, do you see any signs from the, from the public? Can she hear me?  
Speaker 2     00:42:54    I think, Laura, you're muted.  
Speaker 1     00:43:02    Yes. Is that Ms. Buckley back  
Speaker 2     00:43:05    There? Yeah. Okay.  
Speaker 1     00:43:09    Ms. Buckley, I was trying to open Ms. I'm not, okay. Did you see any indication that anyone has any questions?  
Speaker 2     00:43:14    She's still muted. Yes, I'd  
Speaker 1     00:43:16    Like to.  
Speaker 2     00:43:17    All right. Thank you Ms. Smith. Just bear with us one second. We're trying to get our,  
Speaker 1     00:43:23    All  
Speaker 2     00:43:23    Right, we're trying to get Ms. Buckley so we can hear her.  
Speaker 9     00:43:32    Okay.  
Speaker 2     00:43:35    Hold on. Looks like she's moving locations. I know there are several people. Mr. B, Mr. Kelly. Okay.  
Speaker 1     00:43:46    Alright. Thank  
Speaker 2     00:43:47    And Ms. Smith obviously, and I just wanna wait till we have Laura 'cause she has to take the minutes also.  
Speaker 1     00:43:54    Okay.  
Speaker 2     00:44:00    Mr. Kelly also, can  
Speaker 0     00:44:01    You hear me now?  
Speaker 2     00:44:02    Yes. Yes.  
Speaker 0     00:44:03    The microphones aren't working in the other room again, I do apologize. The first one we had all was J Valley.  
Speaker 6     00:44:10    Yes.  
Speaker 10    00:44:11    Yes sir.  
Speaker 2     00:44:13    State your name and this goes for everybody. State your name, spell your last name, give us your address and then I'll swear you in.  
Speaker 10    00:44:21    Yes, it's J Bali 22, Matthew Coat, Piscataway. And anything else? You said two things, right? Okay.  
Speaker 2     00:44:32    If you raise your right hand, you swear the testimony I give before this board will be the whole truth?  
Speaker 10    00:44:37    Yes, I do. Okay.  
Speaker 2     00:44:38    Do you have any questions for Mr. Allen back?  
Speaker 10    00:44:41    Yes, I do. So this whole whole process is, is very dense and the, and the, so I would like, I would be interested in seeing or in under, on his views on the traffic that will put on the, on, on hose lane. That is the route Eaton extension. I've been here in Piscataway for the last 27 years. I don't know how many of people over here on this call actually live in Piscataway around, around this place. I'm three minutes drive from this place. This was a blue ribbon school when I came to Piscataway. I, I'm in a community of about 25 homes and along, along close to that is Society Hill was about 400 homes. And of all the people in my neighborhood, everybody's concerned about the traffic pattern that'll bring on this on hose lane. It is, it used to take me about two minutes to go from, you know, modest Avenue and to the end of Centennial. Now it's, it could take me upwards of, you know, 5, 7, 8 minutes now. So with all these 1100 folks coming in, it's going to be a lot more traffic. Also the school district, there's all those schools over there where everybody goes. So I'd like to hear from him what is, what is the, how many, how many feeder roads will come into Hose lane and his opinion on that. Thank you Madam chair.  
Speaker 5     00:46:08    If I, if I just may for a moment, Mr. Arla, we're going to have a traffic engineer that's gonna be testifying Matt Ser after Mr. Oba. So I don't know if that's probably more appropriate for him to answer in terms of the, the traffic in terms of the school. I mean that's just, that's part of the zoning that is in place right now. So,  
Speaker 10    00:46:35    So so are you proposing I, I'll, I'll debate for my asset for the the traffic thing, but are you proposing more schools in Pisca, ma'am?  
Speaker 5     00:46:43    More schools?  
Speaker 10    00:46:45    Yeah, most, because when I, when I came here it was about 13 students to one school, then it went to 16 and now it's around 23. And now in some classes gonna be 26. So with one high school, couple of elementary schools and all these, the 2200 kids obviously will go in different, different schools. So I don't think our school system can take so much load, especially with, you know, I I, I have, I have two kids. I've got one passed out from here and then I have two more kids in the school system. One is in the seventh grade, one is in the fourth grade, the seventh grade. I keep on hearing that is, you know, it's too packed in a school. So with this 1100 kids, what is your proposal ma'am?  
Speaker 5     00:47:29    It's really up to the town to figure that out in terms of the school children. We're gonna be coming in and, you know, we're, we're going to be paying our taxes or at least the people that are gonna be living there will be paying their taxes. So, but how that is accomplished, that's up to the, the Township. And  
Speaker 10    00:47:50    So who can speak from the  
Speaker 2     00:47:51    Ship? I was just gonna say though, Ms. Elger, if you look at NJSA 40 55 D dash 45.2 J, your general development plan could, can include a physical report describing the anticipated demand on municipal services and school districts. So  
Speaker 5     00:48:16    Right. That would be the fiscal impact. Yeah, we would be presenting during the site plan.  
Speaker 2     00:48:22    You can also present it towards the general development plan under the statute.  
Speaker 4     00:48:26    And, and Thomas,  
Speaker 5     00:48:28    Well, it's not required, I guess is No,  
Speaker 2     00:48:30    No, you're, you're certainly right. There are certain things that are required and then there's A through L which can be included but not limited to. So that would be something that might address some of the residents concerns.  
Speaker 5     00:48:46    Understood.  
Speaker 10    00:48:48    And we don't wanna go down this lane to only to figure out later on that, hey, we made a big blunder and suddenly, you know, our, our schools have, you know, 2000, 3000 more kids coming in with no plans. So we would appreciate, ma'am, and if you would like some signatures from people I, I can have about, you know, final signatures for you for people who are really interested in answering that question.  
Speaker 2     00:49:08    Thank you Mr. Ballad. Dawn, did you have a question? I  
Speaker 4     00:49:11    Was just gonna say, Irene, there was a fiscal impact analysis submitted when the GT GDP was submitted for review that was prepared by Richard Redding. It was dated April 24th, 2021. Is that something that will also be revised and resubmitted back to the Township for review?  
Speaker 5     00:49:30    It depends. I think that that was submitted also because we had come in not only just for A GDP at that point, we came in for site plan. So now we're just revising based on some comments that we've received during the process in the past couple of years. So we're just coming in for the GDP at this point. And it, the fiscal impact statement might still hold true. I just, I haven't reviewed it recently. So  
Speaker 4     00:49:55    Is it something that your, you know, your team's gonna take a look at? Is it something that you can come back to the board and say, you know, it is accurate or come back? Is it something you're willing to take a look at to address the board's concerns? The gentleman that's just spoke  
Speaker 5     00:50:12    Well, it, it certainly, we, we would be fine. If you wanted to make it a condition of the GDP approval, we would definitely come back with a fiscal impact statement.  
Speaker 2     00:50:26    Hmm. Mr. Is Mr. Kelly up next? Laura? What happened to me?  
Speaker 1     00:50:36    I'm sorry,  
Speaker 11    00:50:36    Your  
Speaker 0     00:50:37    Hands were raised first. So William Kelly,  
Speaker 1     00:50:39    Mr. Kelly was,  
Speaker 0     00:50:41    Yes. You guys, not to cut you off, I apologize. If you're on a computer, you have to raise your hand. We can't just start yelling out. I'm next, I'm next. Raise your hand as the hands come up in order. I will call on your name and then you have permission to speak. Thank you.  
Speaker 2     00:50:56    Mr. Kelly, if you could give us, state your name, spell your last name, and give us your address please, sir?  
Speaker 11    00:51:01    Yes sir. This is William Kelly, K-E-L-L-Y 99 Seymour. So I am  
Speaker 2     00:51:09    In Piscataway, correct?  
Speaker 11    00:51:11    Yes. Okay.  
Speaker 2     00:51:13    You raise your right hand. Do you swear the testimony you'll give before this board will be the whole truth?  
Speaker 11    00:51:18    I do.  
Speaker 2     00:51:19    Okay. Your question or comment, sir? For Mr. Allen  
Speaker 11    00:51:23    Ma? Mainly I have, well whoever can answer, but I, well the  
Speaker 2     00:51:27    Only one that we're asking questions of is Mr. Allen Vac based on his testimony,  
Speaker 11    00:51:32    If it's okay. So ma mainly my question is about the A two area. I think he called it the A two, which was the single family homes.  
Speaker 2     00:51:43    Okay.  
Speaker 11    00:51:44    All right. So I live right behind there and you know, the road on this kind of looks like it runs through the parking lot of the River Crest Cabana Club is, is that correct? There's a parking lot there now today.  
Speaker 6     00:52:04    Correct. The extension of that road into that neighborhood still needs to be worked out with the Township of the exact location.  
Speaker 11    00:52:11    Alright. But according to this, it looks like it would run through their parking lot. I don't know if you had discussions with them yet. And then it would run down, what is that? Giles Avenue? River Crest. River Crest where And right around that corner is, is Kack Middle School about 50 yards beyond where that road stops on your map?  
Speaker 6     00:52:41    Correct.  
Speaker 11    00:52:43    Okay. So according to this, those homes, it appears like they don't connect with the rest of this community.  
Speaker 6     00:52:51    They don't. And when you say the rest of this community, I assume you're talking about our proposal? Yes.  
Speaker 6     00:52:57    Yeah. There's a requirement in the zoning that the single family kind of be standalone. They do not connect into the overall development that they're kind of a separate little, little development, if you will. 'cause it's only 20 single family houses. But it's a requirement that they are not connected in. And, and my understanding, and I don't wanna speak for the Township, but one of the concerns they had with, with having those single families back in there as the buffer, you know, only 20 of them, but they were not to be connected into the multifamily development or mixed use development.  
Speaker 11    00:53:31    Okay. But I mean, this is like, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. 'cause those folks would not be able to drive into this community. You know, I'm just concerned that maybe that that road would connect up with Skiles at some point  
Speaker 6     00:53:50    In, in, in a roundabout way. It will.  
Speaker 11    00:53:54    Well, huh, I'm, I'm looking at the mayor's face.  
Speaker 12    00:53:59    Well, I just for the record, Mr. Barlow, there is a Township 50 watt, 50 foot wide paper street out there and the Swim Club doesn't own that. It is a Township Paper Street.  
Speaker 6     00:54:14    Thank you Mayor.  
Speaker 11    00:54:17    Okay. Well that, that's you, you answered my other questions earlier, so I I appreciate you. Were pretty thorough at this point.  
Speaker 6     00:54:27    Thank you.  
Speaker 11    00:54:28    Okay,  
Speaker 0     00:54:30    Thank you.  
Speaker 1     00:54:31    Ms. Barkley. Is there another resident who wants to speak?  
Speaker 0     00:54:38    Yes, we have Stanley and Eileen Smith.  
Speaker 13    00:54:42    Hello this, my name is  
Speaker 2     00:54:44    Eileen Smith.  
Speaker 13    00:54:46    Eileen, okay. Smith SM S-M-I-T-H. I live at 1 9 3 Hillside Avenue in Piscataway. We've been a resident here for  
Speaker 2     00:54:59    Just wait, wait one second. Ms. Smith Hillside Avenue. You raise your right hand. You swear the testimony you'll give before this board will be the whole truth?  
Speaker 13    00:55:07    I do.  
Speaker 2     00:55:08    And what is your question or comment, ma'am?  
Speaker 13    00:55:10    Okay. First, Mr. Aback, he, I guess he answered my question. My main concern was where the housing will be on the cul-de-sac that it runs right into Hillside Avenue, but I believe he has listed that as a walkaway to, into Hillside Avenue. And I guess my concern is that it'll never be a open road, a back entrance, if you would, to this housing development. It doesn't look like it now, but I would hope for the future that would not happen.  
Speaker 13    00:55:48    And my other concern is the schools itself, hillside is right there for Norwood Elementary School. And as the other gentleman said, there's Kmac and Martin Luther King. So yes, the traffic in that housing development that we all live in back here would be a concern for all these other cars, plus the number of students that may come into our Township and raise our taxes, which of course are sky high as it is. So just hoping that that would not happen. I know you can't give a guarantee, but I would just like to put it on record that I would hope that it would not increase the, the need for additional schools and more students in the classrooms and raise the people taxes.  
Speaker 6     00:56:42    Okay. Ms. Smith, I, I know you asked a, a couple different questions slash statements there. Traffic school kids, not me, but I will try to answer your, your concern about access to Hillside. And again, as as the Township has requested of us and it and the zone requires it, you're correct. We are showing a multi-use path that connects there. That connection that went from Hillside into the cul-de-sac is a 20 foot wide emergency access only. And that was something again that the Township wanted us to provide so that in the event that emergency vehicles need to get in there, they can get in there from Hillside. So it's not our intention to put a roadway through there. I don't believe, and I can't speak for the town, but I don't believe they would ever allow that connection. But we are showing that emergency access only at the end of that cul-de-sac into Hillside.  
Speaker 13    00:57:31    Okay. That's good. And I think that's it for me. Thank you very, thank you very much.  
Speaker 2     00:57:37    Thank, thank you Ms. Smith.  
Speaker 1     00:57:41    Do we have another question from the public? Ms. Buckley?  
Speaker 0     00:57:47    No one else is raising their hands. Would anybody else have a question or comment?  
Speaker 1     00:57:54    Okay. Then close to the public for Mr. Beck's testimony.  
Speaker 6     00:57:57    Thank you very much. Thank  
Speaker 5     00:57:59    You  
Speaker 1     00:58:00    Ms. Agart. You may proceed with the next witness.  
Speaker 5     00:58:03    Sure. The next witness I'd like to call is Matt Seckler.  
Speaker 2     00:58:15    Good evening, Mr. Seckler. You're muted. Oh no you're not. Nevermind. If you could state your name, spell your last name and give us your professional address please.  
Speaker 6     00:58:32    Matt. Matt, you're muted.  
Speaker 0     00:58:34    He is muted. Yeah.  
Speaker 2     00:58:36    I don't, I don't know if he's here. Can hear me? Mr. Suckler, if you can hear me Wave.  
Speaker 0     00:58:47    Oh, he's coming back on. He's signing on on a second one. Okay. His screen froze. That's why he's not waving. Yeah. Test, test, test, test. Mr. Sickler.  
Speaker 14    00:59:08    Certainly. My name is Matthew S That's SE  
Speaker 2     00:59:15    That's not gonna work unfortunately. You're, you're, you're lagging too much. Mr. Seckler.  
Speaker 14    00:59:21    KLER. I'm with Stonefield Engineering.  
Speaker 5     00:59:25    No. Hey Matt, can you hear me?  
Speaker 2     00:59:30    Nope. Now he's gone.  
Speaker 5     00:59:31    Okay, hold on.  
Speaker 2     00:59:46    Excuse me  
Speaker 6     01:00:14    Mr. Barlow. I just spoke to Matt. He's currently moving his location to see if he can get a better reception. If you just stand by for one minute,  
Speaker 5     01:00:27    Maybe he can call in to, at least so we can hear him better.  
Speaker 6     01:00:39    Says he is rejoining. I don't dunno if Laura has to let him in or t has to let him in  
Speaker 2     01:01:00    And you hear him  
Speaker 5     01:01:04    Think so.  
Speaker 14    01:01:06    I hear him too. Can you hear him a  
Speaker 5     01:01:09    Little better?  
Speaker 2     01:01:09    Not much. No. You're, you're lagging.  
Speaker 14    01:01:14    Hello?  
Speaker 5     01:01:16    Oh,  
Speaker 14    01:01:16    Let me try to do without my video, hold on. Is this any better? Sounds better.  
Speaker 5     01:01:21    That sounded clear actually.  
Speaker 9     01:01:25    Okay.  
Speaker 2     01:01:26    All right. We'll try this again. Can you state your name, spell your last name, and give us your professional address.  
Speaker 14    01:01:32    Certainly. My name is Matthew Seckler. That's S-E-C-K-L-E-R with Stonefield Engineering Design address is 92 Park Avenue in Rutherford, New Jersey.  
Speaker 2     01:01:43    Raise your right hand, you swear the testimony and give before this board will be the whole truth? Yes. Your witness? Yes,  
Speaker 14    01:01:51    I do.  
Speaker 5     01:01:53    Thank you. So Mr. Seckler, if you could go through in particular the circulation and access and if you need an exhibit or anything, just let us know. Maybe Ron can share his screen and, and pull up the circulation plan if you'd like. Whatever you need.  
Speaker 14    01:02:13    Yeah, sure, certainly. And, and Iran, if you just wanna throw up the general plan so Thateveryone  
Speaker 2     01:02:17    Can Ms. Elgar, do you wanna qualify him  
Speaker 5     01:02:19    First?  
Speaker 14    01:02:20    Oh,  
Speaker 5     01:02:20    Oh, I'm so sorry. Mr. Ser, if you could state your, your credentials for the record.  
Speaker 14    01:02:28    Certainly. I have a Bachelor of Science in Civil Engineering from Union College in Chen, connecting New York. I have a master's in city regional planning from Rutgers University. I am a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey and recognized professional traffic operations engineer by the Institute of Transportation Engineers, ex accepted before over 150 boards in the state of New Jersey as a traffic engineer.  
Speaker 5     01:02:51    Thank you. I thank you Mr. Cutler. You may, you may proceed. Thank you. So the, the general development plan, the is is on the screen now. Matt, I dunno if you see it. Thank you.  
Speaker 14    01:03:08    Yep. I see it perfectly.  
Speaker 5     01:03:10    Okay.  
Speaker 14    01:03:11    Certainly. And again, as part of this project from a traffic en engineering perspective, one of the first things we look at is the general roadway network around the site. This is a, a development where again, other than the single family homes that were just discussed by members of the public, you know, the access mainly leads everyone into and out of the site. Generally from hose lane. Hose lane obviously has easy access Route 2 87 to the north and then accessed through New Brunswick, right into New Brunswick and then towards exit nine of the turnpike. If you head towards the south on hose lane. The way the site has been designed and you heard from Mr. Alback and his testimony that there is really minimal to no kind of cut through traffic or accessibility through any of the nearby, I would say local streets to get to those, I would say primary roads, those arterial roadways which carry majority of commuter traffic, which being this development being a mixed use development, most of the traffic coming in and out of a site like this would be, you know, people leaving in the morning, going to work, people returning in the afternoon, coming from work.  
Speaker 14    01:04:23    And then obviously your kind of day-to-day shopping needs. But again, from a engineering perspective, traffic engineering perspective, we did take a look at this from accessibility standpoint as indicated within the GDP and in compliant with that, the access points to this development maintains what is out there today and again is consistent with the GDP language. That includes the one signaled intersection along hose lane that will remain as is. We also have a access point via Knight Bridge, Knights Bridge at the roundabout that feeds basically access through the, I would say, northern area of the Northern access point of the site. And then we have the access point on Skiles Road also to a, to a set of the residential development to the southern portions of the site. So overall, again, the access to the site, you know, to the GDP area will remain as is in similar to the existing condition and it that is consistent with what is located within the GDP.  
Speaker 14    01:05:31    As of today. We received a letter from the New Jersey Department of Transportation. They have found that this development will not require a new access permit and they believe that this will not create a significant, significant negative impact in terms of the trips generated from this site. Obviously there is a change in traffic levels as is with any level of development. But Department of Transportation, I believe, based on, you know, the, where the way that this site accesses, the state highway believes that the traffic signals that are basically providing access to and from the site to to and from Knights Bridge, the main Erickson Drive driveway and then scales all is such that it could support the level of traffic that we'd be generating. That said, consistent with the GDP requirements or I guess the requirements laid out within the GDP plan, we would be required to provide a detailed traffic impact study to be submitted with the preliminary site plan.  
Speaker 14    01:06:34    So while there's not a, I would say detailed traffic study that's been prepared at this point and submitted, we would be compliant with the GDP plan again, which requires that to be submitted with the prelim preliminary site plan application package. But we did review the site plan as it relates to the onsite access, the drive aisles, the accessibility within the site itself as Mr. Oba highlighted. And this is in compliance with the GDP plan. The development plan is meant to promote kind of multimodal transportation. You heard the connections that are being provided via kind of bike paths, bike lanes, a multi-use path connections, connecting the site to and from hose lane. Additionally internal to the site itself. When you build a mixed use development, one of the benefits is the, the ability for vehicles to have what's called internal trips. Meaning that you do not need to drive on public roads to run your nor normal errands.  
Speaker 14    01:07:37    So you could, let's say, live in one of these buildings, go to one of those kind of neighborhood retail spaces that Mr. Emba, you know, spoke about, whether it's a pharmacy or a pizzeria or a nail salon, without having to burden the public roadway network. Same thing if you end up having to work in the, you know, the, the office portion of this area, again, you wouldn't need to be able to drive onto public roads to utilize that. So building a mixed use development does, you know, provide benefits in terms of allowing for people to live their day-to-day lives without necessarily driving on public roads. We've also designed the site internally to support and encourage pedestrian activity. The site is full of features that would be considered traffic calming to help prevent speeding through the site, cut through traffic through the site, and to be pedestrian friendly.  
Speaker 14    01:08:31    This includes, we do have a roundabout on site located just, just off the corner of the tower. Again, that will help slow down traffic speeds within the residential portions of the development. Additionally, all the radii and drive aisle widths and roadway, internal roadway widths are designed, compliant with industry standards and are such that they do not encourage, again, high speed turns and allow for better visibility for pedestrians crossing the street. In addition, in, in addition, obviously having the connectivities to nearby areas via these public paths, whether it's, if there are school children being generated from this type of development, they do have the ability to, let's say, walk to the nearby elementary school, walk to the high school across hose laying on the bridge. You know, so there is the ability for, you know, residents of this building to not only, you know, not need their car onsite, but also not necessarily need to drive to everything immediately offsite of this development as well.  
Speaker 14    01:09:35    So overall, from a, you know, development standpoint, from a GDP review standpoint, from a traffic engineering perspective, again, we believe that the design of the site is appropriate and is consistent with industry standards. We believe that the site has been, the physical design of the site does provide for positive control over vehicular and pedestrian traffic, meaning that it's designed for safe and efficient conditions. And as the Department of Transportation has issued their letter, we agree that this will not have a unreasonably adverse impact in terms of traffic impact. We agree that, you know, further traffic impact studies as the site plans are prepared would obviously be necessary in order to be consistent with the GDP plan.  
Speaker 5     01:10:25    Thank you. And if you could also go through the parking and whether we comply with the town center ordinance standards with regard to the residential and the non-residential, appreciate that.  
Speaker 14    01:10:39    Yes, absolutely. And as it relates to the parking on the site, the site is compliant with the parking standards. The residential aspects of the site are governed by the RSIS or the residential site improvement standards. That is a state, basically a state regulation or state formulas that provide what parking is required for each different type of residential use. For instance, the residential, let's say apartments within the tower have a different parking calculation compared to the single family uses in the rear of the site or even the townhouses that are located on the site as well. So each type of housing stock has its own calculated residential site improvement standard number, and we are compliant with that. The non-residential aspects of the site, the retail portions, they are compliant with the, with, with the Piscataway zoning ordinance, which is what is required as part of the GDP plan. So we are compliant in terms of the number of parking spaces overall for all the uses on the site. In addition, we also are providing the requisite number of EV parking spaces, so that is kind of the third parking requirement that is, is out there. So we are compliant with the number of EV spaces, number of residential parking spaces, and number of non-residential parking spaces on the property.  
Speaker 5     01:12:01    Okay, excellent. Thank you. I don't have any further questions, so I will turn you over to the board if they have any questions.  
Speaker 12    01:12:11    Madam chair, I just wanna jump in about the Mr. Sacklers comment about the EV charging stations. I wanna make sure that they are actually in operation not stubbed out because we've noticed around the state, because of the state law that superseded a other municipalities that developers are using that as a crutch not to install the EV station. So just UB it out and leave it as is.  
Speaker 14    01:12:41    Again, I, I know the state regulation requires one third of the EV spaces to be operational the day that A CEO is issued with them basically getting another one third three years after that and another one third three years after that. But again, obviously, you know, you know the applicant obviously, you know, we'll also follow the market if all of a sudden there's need for, you know, half or all of the EV spaces to be constructed in operational day one because of, you know, when this gets built, EV vehicles are, you know, have higher, you know, marketability than Yeah, I imagine that more would be constructed than the minimal one  
Speaker 12    01:13:22    Uhrin just opening Uhrin. You could stop right there. That's a non-starter for me. You're gonna have to construct them all. I'm just gonna leave it at that.  
Speaker 14    01:13:31    Okay.  
Speaker 12    01:13:32    Alright.  
Speaker 2     01:13:33    Madam chair if I may, I just had a couple of questions. Go ahead  
Speaker 5     01:13:37    Mr. Barlow.  
Speaker 2     01:13:38    Thank you Mr. Suckler. The DOT letter that you're referencing that you received today, obviously you'll, you'll provide a copy of that to the Yeah,  
Speaker 5     01:13:47    We'll  
Speaker 2     01:13:47    Provide it staff for their review.  
Speaker 5     01:13:49    Yeah, we literally just got it, you know, midday, so  
Speaker 2     01:13:52    Understood the, the Township staff will wanna review that. Of course. The other question I have, Mr. Ser, is for the DOT to respond, it sounds like, did you conduct counts? Did you go out there and, and perform circulation traffic counts for the area?  
Speaker 14    01:14:12    So for the DOT aspect, what they look at is they look at, I would say, book values of trip generation for what this site used to generate in terms of traffic and then what is projected to be generated in terms of traffic from this site, not necessarily the roadway volumes themselves. That said, our office has, you know, done work in the Piscataway area. We have conducted counts, you know, in September of 2021. So we also have, you know, kind of background volumes that it, you know, exist in the general area. But the Department of Transportation, what they look at is, is typically how much is being generated and being thrown onto the State highway versus what they already have on their state highway in terms of the letter that we received.  
Speaker 2     01:14:58    Oh, okay. So that's dealing with the state highway, not the impact on the local roads. So just to be clear, did did you conduct counts? 'cause the board's traffic eng expert, Ms. Dolan is going to wanna review anything or any counts that were conducted, obviously to, to make sure that the numbers that you're utilizing, you know, pass her muster.  
Speaker 5     01:15:26    Well, the state highway is route 18, so it's right in front. Okay. I'm  
Speaker 2     01:15:30    Sorry.  
Speaker 5     01:15:31    Right. I mean that's what we're talking about, Matt.  
Speaker 14    01:15:33    Yes, Jose Lane is under state jurisdiction  
Speaker 2     01:15:35    There. Okay. Okay. So if you have any data, obviously Ms. Dolan's going to want to review it. That's all I have at this time. Ms. Smith.  
Speaker 6     01:15:45    Understood. Thank you.  
Speaker 8     01:15:48    Members of the board. Do you have any other questions of Madam chair? If I may? It's Councilman. Kinneally, yeah. So just getting back to the trip generations, Mr. Seckler, you mentioned, you know, what was previously generated versus what's anticipated, but how far back are we looking? Because I know this site has, you know, changed in terms of occupancy, meaning the amount employees way back, I, correct me if I'm wrong, somebody here on the board may know at one time this was fully occupied with, I don't know, 3000 to or more employees. So I'm just wondering what is the length and breadth of breadth the review back as compared to future trip generations?  
Speaker 14    01:16:48    Yeah, so what the Department of Transportation, that's what we had, I'd say done this type of comparison for, was for the Department of Transportation. What they looked back is they looked to see what could be generated by the buildings on the site, not necessarily, you know, in 2024 what the traffic was being generated by the buildings on the site, but generally based on, I believe it's like eight thou, 891,000 square feet or so of office space that was on the site. What trip generation is generated by that. And just so you're aware, the number of trips in a peak hour from the buildings on the site that the DOT would accept would be about, it's about 1100 vehicle trips in an hour is what the DOT assumes that site generated. Obviously Im its heyday it may have generated even more than that. As you said, 3000 employees maybe generated 1500 or 2000 trips in a peak hour, but what the DOT is looking at is previously based on that square footage, that this would be a site that generates around 1100 trips in an hour.  
Speaker 8     01:17:55    And do, and you and IIII apologize, we're gonna beat this like a dead horse. You have done that yet, you're going to do that in, did you already mention how many trips per hour? Because for some reason I don't recall hearing that.  
Speaker 5     01:18:13    No, we go ahead Matt.  
Speaker 14    01:18:16    No, no, you go Irina, you, you answered that's what  
Speaker 5     01:18:18    I was gonna say. I was gonna say we're gonna submit the, the, the traffic impact study itself when we do our site, but, but at the same time, I don't know that Matt testified to anything, you know, what's being generated. I think what he was talking about was the fact that the DOT had used data that they had and, and based on that, I think that's what you said, Matt, I mean, I don't know, you, you, you can clarify it, but that's what it sounded like to me. It didn't sound like, or, you know, if you did any trip counts.  
Speaker 14    01:18:51    Yeah, so, so what the DOT does is they basically have a, a book of formulas. So we provide them the information that says what was previously on this site was an office complex that had, you know, 891,000 square feet of, of buildings and the future use will have, you know, x amount of office building y amount of multifamily housing and this amount of retail. We give them basically what the, what the proposed uses will be on the site. For example, for this use, the, the DOT calculations show that the trip generation the morning from going to let's say 1100 trips an hour, which is what was in excite previously being generated, goes to about 1300 trips in an hour. So about 200 new trips with the addition of, you know, all this multifamily that's that, you know, and, and retail being put on the site.  
Speaker 14    01:19:47    So again, this is the type of valuation DOT looks at. The other thing they look at is, you know, the access points of the site, you know, there are, at signalize intersections, there are multiple access points where you could get onto hose lane. You basically, from this site, you'll have three different signals, although only one of them is direct, you know, at Erickson Drive would be the only one that's direct to the state highway, but obviously from Knights Bridge or from Skiles, you could also get, you know, to to to hose lane. So DOT looks at that in their evaluations when they determine that the, the roadway could support this type of trip generation.  
Speaker 8     01:20:22    Okay. So Mr. Seckler, just to be clear, be clear, you are stating that the DOT did look at this and based upon the previous use it was 1100 trips in one hour. But you just mentioned that based upon the plan, the DOTI don't know, estimated plan or, or saying something to the effect of 1300 per hour. I mean, what is that statement there? Just to be clear?  
Speaker 14    01:20:52    So in the morning peak hour, what was provided to the DOT is the previous site generated about 1100 trips an hour in the morning. The proposed development will generate about 1300 trips an hour. Okay. So DOT looks at those type of pieces when they evaluate.  
Speaker 8     01:21:09    Okay. That's, that's strictly based upon a formula, not by observation because there's nothing built there yet, right?  
Speaker 14    01:21:17    Correct. Yes. Yep. So  
Speaker 8     01:21:19    One other question I have with regard to the parking, I, it, correct me if I'm wrong, but the parking lot at Hose Lane and Erickson Drive, opposite of the retail spots spec, you know, of the, the P four blue section there, that is what the existing lot looks like or is that changed up some?  
Speaker 14    01:21:52    So you're asking if the sorry parking lot that's kind of south of Erickson Drive is going to stay as is, is that what the question is? Yeah,  
Speaker 8     01:22:00    Yeah.  
Speaker 14    01:22:02    Yes. It's basically gonna stay as is. Correct.  
Speaker 8     01:22:05    And that's not part of this GDP though, right? Just to be clear? Correct. Okay. Correct. I, I just, you know, I'm seeing a and, and that may change potentially, but, all right. I think that's all I have for questions. Thank you.  
Speaker 7     01:22:21    Any other questions from the board? Madam chair? This is Mika. If Yes, go ahead. Sorry Ms. Cochran. No go by  
Speaker 8     01:22:29    All means  
Speaker 7     01:22:29    No, go right ahead. Alright, thank you. Thank you Madam chair. Mr. ler. I do have couple of questions now as, as we look at GDP and as per the municipal land use law. One of the items as, as stated, is a circulation plan should be provided that shows the general locations and types of transportation facilities, pedestrian access, and basically provides a general, any proposed improvements to not only the site, but any of the surrounding area that it would need. Now we did hear tonight that, you know, the, the review was done along Hose lane, which is State Route 18, and it was, if I hear if I heard it correctly, that there's couple of signaled intersections there and DOT said that there's no requirement for anything additional, but was the similar study done for anything on the surrounding roadways such as Skys, avenue Knight, which road and the impact on the those areas? As for, because of this development?  
Speaker 14    01:23:47    No, at this point, again, what we've looked at was the Department of Transportation's kind of review. And again, we obviously as part of the GDP are required to provide detailed traffic impact studies as part of the preliminary, preliminary site plan. Obviously that could, you know, indicate capacity levels at other offsite intersections. I would say that I believe Mr. Obeck has provided, and his office has provided, you know, a plan that did show circulation route primary and secondary vehicular routes as along with connections that are kind of bike and pedestrian connections to the nearby street. So I think that was what was provided in terms of that circulation plan element.  
Speaker 5     01:24:30    Yeah, there's a general circulation plan, it's CP dash one. Yeah, I don't know if  
Speaker 7     01:24:37    Sure. Sorry Ms. Algar. Yeah, we, we see that, but that's basically circulation on site. What I'm trying to get at is when the GDP has to be reviewed, it looks at not only impact, primary impact on the site, but also any of the surrounding areas that it would impact. So in terms of, we heard about, you know, the trip generation and its impact being studied on hose lane. I was just curious to see if any impacts on the secondary roads around that, that was studied to, again, understand when it's a general development plan, what impacts would it have on the surrounding area. The second question, as we've heard tonight that this being the property it is and the type of development that's being proposed, it most probably would be a phased development in terms of that. Would you say in terms of traffic impact or review how, you know, that would impact in trip generations and so on and so forth, because we don't know the phasing yet, but in terms of how, you know, the primary accesses or secondary accesses would change based on that phasing, would that something be, you know, your team be able to provide, as we heard a phasing plan would be developed because it's part of the zoning ordinance requirement?  
Speaker 7     01:26:06    Is that something that the traffic in relation to that phasing study can, can be discussed or provided?  
Speaker 14    01:26:15    Yeah, I believe that could be discussed and provided as part of a phasing plan. The other benefit is again, that all of these access points exist today. So it's not like we're waiting on an access point to be constructed or a new DOT traffic light to be built in order to accommodate a certain phase of the development. You know, thankfully all these access points generally exist in the current state, but again, obviously we, we could provide that information as part of the, the phasing plan.  
Speaker 7     01:26:44    Thank you, thank you for making that point because that did bring up the next point I had was the, the all the connections, like you said, exist as of today, but if we do not have an overall, you know, impact study, how would we, or how would the town know any kind of off track improvements that may or may not be required as part of this development? Is that,  
Speaker 14    01:27:17    And, and again, I I think one of the benefits of, of this dev development location is where the vehicles would be kind of accessing the higher level roadways. You know, if a vehicle is going out via Sky's Avenue, they're basically, you know, on a fairly short dead end road with limited, you know, other uses and come right to Skies Avenue and then basically they're right back onto Route 18 hose lane. Obviously Knight Bridge, if they come out that direction, yes they do have the opportunity to go towards 18 hose lane or to Centennial Avenue and Route 2 87 in that way. But again, I would say it's a pretty limited portion that they would be on, you know, any other, I would say local road to get to the interstate highway or state highway system and as opposed to, you know, maybe other developments that would be going through a lot of local roads, county roads, things of that nature. But again, obviously we have committed as part of the GDP requirements to provide that traffic impact study with the preliminary site plan, which again was, was spelled out within the G-D-P-G-D-P documents.  
Speaker 5     01:28:26    And, and I think that the traffic impact study, I'm just looking at the, the town center requirements is that the TIS shall also examine traffic impacts associated with the development upon the local street system and critical impact intersection locations. And that's the detailed traffic impact study that shall be submitted with a preliminary site plan application.  
Speaker 7     01:28:51    Yeah, understood about that. But I think the same ordinance also does talk about under 21, 32 0.4 talks about the GDP application shall include location number and type of all residential non-residential users describe the phasing of the development together with any onsite and off track improvements needed to support such phasing. So I think that's what I was trying to get at. If we don't know what off track improvements would be needed, I think all that would have to be kind of, you know, at least preliminary be decided during the GDP and that's where I think the phasing would come in as to what comes before and what comes after would be, you know, something that the board and the Township decides as to, you know, in level of priorities. Sorry, may I continue? I have couple of more questions, Mr. Sackler. One couple of other things. As you understand Towns town center, you know, the intent of the town center is, as the name suggests to be considered as a, you know, pedestrian friendly, bike friendly center for Township of Piscataway. The way you see this GDP layout, the, the roadway or the networks that have been designed along this entire development and as the GDP suggests, you know, roadways should have a dedicated bike lane as well as cross access and pedestrian access. Do you think these roadways as designs would be able to accommodate these kind of features?  
Speaker 14    01:30:43    Yeah, I do. I do believe the site has been designed, the interior of the site's been designed to promote, you know, that pedestrian or multimodal connectivity as I mentioned in my testimony, I believe that the way that the, even the interior blocks are designed, you know, these are not what I would call, you know, New York City super blocks in terms of length, you know, they encourage, you know, pedestrian activity, they encourage, you know, people, you know, crossing streets, you know, we have, you know, I would say a little bit, you know, some, some nice tight radii so vehicles aren't making turns at high speeds were one of the things that I mentioned. So I do believe that the site does have internal site design that promotes, you know, kind of that town, you know, center feel. And then also I think just as important as the connectivity, you know, that kind of connects Route 18 hose lane and that bike path to even the neighborhood behind, you know, hillside Avenue and that connection as well. I think that, you know, providing, you know, accessibility through our site so that it's not just our residents or our, you know, users that, that could benefit from it, but also the neighborhood at large.  
Speaker 7     01:31:50    Okay. And that holds through for the 20,000 square feet of town center, which is kind of placed a little bit more to the Northeastern portion of this entire site?  
Speaker 10    01:32:03    Yes, I believe it does.  
Speaker 7     01:32:06    Okay. I think Madam chair that, those are the questions I have for now. Thank  
Speaker 1     01:32:10    You. Thank you Ms. Apti. Any other members of the board have questions of Mr. Of this witness? Ms. Buckley? I'm alright. Members of the public, I'm going to open it to the public for questions from the public. Would you check and see if anyone has any questions of this witness?  
Speaker 0     01:32:33    Yes. Madam chair Jay Boley.  
Speaker 10    01:32:38    All right,  
Speaker 2     01:32:39    Mr. Boley, just before you say anything, I just, Ms. Buckley, I think the record should reflect that Mr. Foster is present and I I didn't write about what time did Mr. Foster get there's,  
Speaker 0     01:32:51    He's been here for a little while now.  
Speaker 2     01:32:53    I, i I have marked down at eight o'clock. Okay.  
Speaker 0     01:32:55    Yes, that's pretty much  
Speaker 2     01:32:56    Just so the record reflects, obviously if Mr. Foster's going to participate in any vote down the road, he'll have to review the transcript, but just so the record indicates same. Thank you. All right, Mr. Mr. Bley, you're back up?  
Speaker 10    01:33:12    Yes. Do I need to swear in again?  
Speaker 2     01:33:15    No. You understand though, you're still under oath and I presume you still live at 22 Matthew Court, you haven't moved?  
Speaker 10    01:33:21    Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Thank  
Speaker 2     01:33:24    You. Well, what do, what question or comment do you have for Mr. Sackler? The, the, yeah. Traffic expert.  
Speaker 10    01:33:31    Yep. Thank you Mr. Zacker, for presenting your, your, you know, thoughts. I think it was a very rosy picture. I've been here for a very long time. I've seen that road having a lot of, you know, small vehicles to having trucks. I was on the road about five minutes back and there were six big trucks, the tractor trailers on the, from hose lane to Sentinel Avenue. A lot of times if you just visit that during the daytime there, there is a lot of traffic. So even the YMCA has got about 250 cars all time of the day. So building this 300 vehicles on that road during the morning times, especially when everybody within a two kilometer radius of any school, public school in Piscataway need to drop off their kids is, is a big concern. Right? 1100 vehicles is probably a two hour traffic on, on those roads today.  
Speaker 10    01:34:38    So going back to, I think somebody asked a question, have you done a proper study or, you know, not not so drought 18, I remember 20 17, 20 18, something like that they used, there was a strip down the road, which was measuring the traffic that is going on those roads. I haven't seen that probably for the past five, seven years. So before, I know it's an, it's an initial phase over here, but before you, you know, the, or especially if the, if the Township decides that we need to have somebody protecting our interests, we should, we should probably sponsor someone from the Township side or from the resident side to put a, put a, you know, air, air, whatever that mar air bow, you know, pipe there to measure the traffic on, on those roads. I think it's imperative rather than, you know, us being theoretical, we need to have proper evidence on the, on the traffic pattern that is happening on those, those roads. And, you know, I know the, the state sits somewhere in Trenton, you sit somewhere else, but I'm, I'm to deal with all this locally. So those are my comments, sir. Thank you.  
Speaker 1     01:35:51    Thank you. Mr. B, any other members of the public that wish to ask a question?  
Speaker 0     01:36:00    No one's raising their hand. Madam chair.  
Speaker 1     01:36:04    Thank you. Seeing no response, I'll close to the public. Do you have another witness?  
Speaker 5     01:36:11    I sh I do. I'd like to call Christine Cone.  
Speaker 15    01:36:19    Good evening for the record. Christine Zaro Cone. Can everybody hear me okay?  
Speaker 1     01:36:23    Yes,  
Speaker 5     01:36:24    It'd be clear, loud and clear.  
Speaker 2     01:36:26    For, for purpose for the court reporter, if you could spell your last name and give us your professional address  
Speaker 15    01:36:31    Course. It's Christine with A-C-H-R-I-S-T-I-N-E. Naro is N-A-Z-Z-A-R-O. Cone is C-O-F-O-N-E. Business address is 1 25 half mile Road, suite 200 Red Bank, New Jersey 0 7 7 0 1. I'm testifying this evening as a licensed professional planner, I've been testifying as such. Wait,  
Speaker 2     01:36:57    Wait, wait. Lemme just swear you in. Raise your right hand. Do you swear the testimony and give before this board will be the whole truth? Yes. You're a witness, Ms. Elgar.  
Speaker 5     01:37:06    Thank you. Ms. cfo, can you state your qualifications and educational background for the record?  
Speaker 15    01:37:16    Yes, good evening. I'm a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey licensed by exam. I have a master's degree in city and regional planning from Rutgers University. I have been qualified as an expert witness in planning over the course of the past 28 years by well over 400 or so planning and zoning boards throughout New Jersey. I have been qualified in Piscataway before both the planning and zoning board. I teach planning and zoning courses for the Rutgers Center for Government Services. I'm a court appointed affordable housing special master, and several dozen communities and my licenses are current and valid.  
Speaker 1     01:37:54    Thank you. She  
Speaker 5     01:37:54    May testify as a expert in the field of planning. Thank you. So Ms. Capone, you heard the testimony so far and you also are familiar with the GDP statute in the MLUL, correct? Yes.  
Speaker 15    01:38:11    I am familiar with the TC zoning standards in Piscataway as well as the municipal law requirements for A GDP general development plan.  
Speaker 5     01:38:21    And if you could go through under the MLUL with regard to the GDP and the testimony that you heard, what is your opinion professionally speaking in terms of whether we qualify and have met the standards required for the GDP?  
Speaker 15    01:38:42    Of course, the municipal land law has both required and optional components that go into A GDP and I believe that the applicant is compliant with not only the municipal landus law requirements for GDP, but also the high level requirements in the TC zoning district. In Piscataway, specifically section 40 55 D dash 45 of the municipal Landus law requires that the applicant of a general development plan provide the permitted number of dwell units. Mr. Beck testified earlier this evening as to what is permitted as of right in the TC zone and also what is permitted as of right according to the density bonus that's requirement. So we're certainly consistent with the density provisions in the TC zone. The other requirements of the mandatory GDP are the amount of non-residential floor space. Mr. Oba testified as to the non-residential floor space. He specifically talked about the concept of qualifying Main Street commercial uses, which is articulated in the TC zone.  
Speaker 15    01:39:52    The qualifying Main Street commercial uses are identified in seven different categories and Ms. Apti questioned if pharmacies were a specifically permitted use. They in fact are pharmacies and drug stores are enumerated as one of the qualifying Main Street commercial uses and they are permissible to have drive-through facilities, banks, pharmacies and drug stores only are the only uses that are allowed to have far have drive-throughs. So we're certainly consistent with both the amount and type of non-residential floor space that is required in the TC zone. The residential density is a also a required mandatory component of the GDP and I think that that's been testified to as to what we're proposing and what the TC zone allows. Again, the non-residential floor area ratio for the plan development in its entirety together with a schedule setting forth of the timing of the various section of the plans.  
Speaker 15    01:40:51    So essentially we have provided the high level requirements, and I say high level because this is not a site plan. So, and the TC zone in Piscataway at about a half a dozen different locations refers you back to the Piscataway Township site plan and subdivision ordinance. And what that means is that at some point, at a later date, when the applicant comes in for the various components of the general development plan, we will absolutely be required to provide detailed landscaping, lighting, storm water management, as well as architecture. In fact, the TC zone has very specific requirements with regard to both residential development standards and non-residential development standards. There are specific criteria in there as in in when I say in there in the zoning ordinance as what those the buildings have to look like. And when I say high level at the GDP, it's because the GDP is meant to give the, the board the general location, the types, the density and the parameters.  
Speaker 15    01:42:01    And this, this plan certainly does does that when we come forward for site plan, the ordinance will require us to do certain things. For example, right in the section of the ordinance 21, 32 11 11 C, it reads, a detailed traffic impact study shall be submitted with a preliminary site plan application to the Township to support the access configuration to the development. So it's not that these documents aren't, aren't going to be provided, they will certainly have to be provided at the site plan phase. But as far as at the phase that we're at, which is the high level general development plan, we comply with what is required to be provided in both the Piscataway ordinance as well as the municipal landus law. The other very important component of this plan and the housing and the population and the intensity that is associated with it is that, and Mr.  
Speaker 15    01:43:02    Oland back alluded to this earlier in the evening, as did Ms. Elgar in her opening remarks in 2017, Piscataway Township entered into a settlement agreement, a court approved settlement agreement to provide for their constitutionally mandated obligation to provide for affordable housing so that the lion's share of that housing will be provided on site for, as part of the general development plan. Ms. Ms Corcoran-Gardella asked if we'll be dispersing those units throughout the various buildings. And Mr. Emba indicated that we certainly would be. So I think that's a very important component of our general development plan. We're, you know, as a team committed to and proud of, you know, the commitment to provide the affordable housing on site in accordance with all of the UAC regulations, there will be governors as far as the bedroom distribution we're required to provide certain amounts of one, two, and three bedroom units, which we will certainly do, which some point those units will need to be identified on plans, on interior layout plans and that will all be accomplished as is typically done at the site plan phase.  
Speaker 15    01:44:16    So I can tell the board that based on my review of the municipal land use law, mandatory requirements as well as town center zoning here in Piscataway, that there is nothing about the GDP that departs from the intensity, the permitted use program, the commercial use program, and the high level site layouts. We have programmed the site while we have not laid out, again, Mr. Beck likes to give the example of pickleball because one of the things he testified he often testifies to is that, you know, Edgewood likes to stay very current and meet the demands of their residents. They want the, their residents of their community to have the access to the amenities that are, you know, reasonable and customary with the type of development that Edgewood provides. And whether that's dog washing statements, state places, dog runs, places for people to enjoy the outdoors with, you know, seating pickleball.  
Speaker 15    01:45:20    We, we try to be very current in what we're providing and programming for the residents of the community. When we're looking at the outdoor spaces associated with the commercial, we like to make sure that there's places for people who might wanna sit there and have a coffee or an acai or something. So these are the things that we as a team, taking Cahn consideration when we're looking at programming these sites. And I, I can assure the board that, you know, we do that, we'll do that on this site and, and we do it on, on all the other sites that we look at. So the developer is, is very experienced in doing that and we'll work together with the framework of the development standard set forth in the TC zone.  
Speaker 5     01:46:02    Thank you.  
Speaker 15    01:46:03    You're welcome.  
Speaker 5     01:46:07    So if you could speak to, in your professional opinion, whether there, you believe there to be an unreasonable adverse impact upon the area in which it is proposed to be established. And I'm reading specifically from the MLUL, section 45 D, which is one of the components of what the planning board has to consider when they look at A GDP.  
Speaker 15    01:46:33    Sure. So there are five components in section 40 55, D dash 45 that the board considers when they're hearing A GDP. The first of that is any departures of the proposed development from zoning zoning regulations. So we're not proposing any departures. I've talked at length about the permitted uses. So that's the first component. The second component is that the proposals for maintenance and conservation of the common open space are reliable and the amount, location, and purpose of the common open space are adequate. That's another thing that your TC zone specifies as to the amount of, of open space that we have to have. It calls for a common area, it sets forth a minimum standard of 20,000 square feet. So we're certainly programmed in accordance with the vision of the TC zone. The third component of the requirements, the findings the board has to make is that the provision through the physical design of the proposed development for public services control over vehicular and pedestrian traffic and the amending is of light air and recreation and visual enjoyment are adequate.  
Speaker 15    01:47:43    The next component is that the proposed plan development will not have an unreasonably adverse impact upon the area in which it is proposed to be established. And the last one is that the proposed development, which contemplates construction over a period of years, but the terms and conditions intended to protect the interest of the public and the residents, occupants and owners of the proposed development and the total completion of the development are adequate. So in all cases here, you know, it goes back to the underlying TC zone that legislatively has already been put in place by the governing body and this applicant's consistency with that. So the intensity of the development on the site has been contemplated in those TC town center zoning standards as well as the township's housing element and fair share plan. So in fact, if you look at the principal permitted uses, it establishes actually a minimum number of residential development units to be constructed on this site. And then it ties in for bonus residential uses and it ties those bonuses not only to the number of units but to the affordable housing set aside as well. So I would say that the development intensity and, and the  
Speaker 15    01:48:58    Programming for the site is certainly, is certainly consistent. It is what was envisioned by Piscataway for this area.  
Speaker 5     01:49:07    Okay, thank you. I don't have any further questions. If the board does  
Speaker 1     01:49:12    Board members, you've heard the testimony of Ms. Cone, do anyone on the board have any questions of her?  
Speaker 2     01:49:19    I have some, just some questions. Madam chair, Ms. Navarro Cone, you, you outlined for us that the ML UL under 40 55 D dash 45 sets forth the, basically the five things that the planning board, the facts and conclusions they need to analyze, correct?  
Speaker 15    01:49:40    Yes.  
Speaker 2     01:49:41    Okay. And you went over that, in your opinion, the general development plan that has been proposed, it, there's certain things that you have to present or provide, correct?  
Speaker 15    01:49:55    Yes.  
Speaker 2     01:49:56    And then you have 55 D dash 45.2, which indicates a general development plan may include but is not limited to. And it goes through a, a host of items, a general land use plan, a circulation plan, an open space plan, a utility plan, a stormwater management plan, an environmental inventory of everything on the site, a community facility plan, a housing plan, a local services plan, a physical report describing the anticipated demand on municipal and schools services, a proposed timing schedule, and a developer's agreement as all items that the plan can include. You would agree with that?  
Speaker 15    01:50:46    Absolutely. I think you just read exactly from the municipal s statute.  
Speaker 2     01:50:49    Okay. Yes. So and you would agree if based on the questions of the board, that if there are certain items that they think they may need more information on, that that's why there is this category, if there's per certain items that the board or the the public wants the board to consider, they're certainly within their right in order to come to their conclusion whether or not it's gonna have a reasonable adverse impact. Correct?  
Speaker 15    01:51:17    Yes. Those are things the board could certainly  
Speaker 2     01:51:19    Consider. Okay. Okay. So I mean, I just want to, just for everyone to be clear, there are certain things you have to do and then there's certain things you can do if the board needs that information. Is that a fair statement? Well,  
Speaker 5     01:51:34    I think that, sorry, I just want to preface by saying that those, those optional is what I guess you're calling it factors is something that is by ordinance has been taken outta the equation based on the town's zoning ordinance?  
Speaker 2     01:51:53    I don't, I don't think the town can sidestep the M-L-U-L-I mean, the same way we have to come with certain facts and conclusions and there's certain things you have to provide like the same way. I don't think we could by ordinance say you're don't have to require the, the, the things that are required. So no,  
Speaker 5     01:52:15    These contents though, this is something that is something that the, that can be per, that could be required by the board could be  
Speaker 2     01:52:24    Required,  
Speaker 5     01:52:25    Absolutely. But it to be by ordinance is what I'm  
Speaker 2     01:52:26    Saying. I I'm not saying they're required. What I'm saying is there certainly can be provided by an applicant in order to assist the planning board.  
Speaker 5     01:52:36    Understood. I  
Speaker 2     01:52:37    I'm not, I'm not saying that you had to do C and you didn't. What I'm suggesting is if the board needs more information, that's kind of why that section of the ordinance is there to say, Hey, we want a fiscal impact because we have these concerns. That's all.  
Speaker 5     01:52:56    Understood.  
Speaker 2     01:52:57    Okay. And my last question is, we, we got in the last couple days of a report you authored and I realize the Township staff hasn't had a chance to respond to that. So I just wanted to to indicate that you, you did submit a report to the Township, correct?  
Speaker 15    01:53:14    Yes, I did. Okay.  
Speaker 5     01:53:15    We would be, the developer would be agreeable to re to withhold that report and not even have it, the board consider it. It's fine if it was submitted too late then I apologize for that.  
Speaker 2     01:53:26    No, no, I, I, I mean I think, I think the board's professional staff wants an opportunity to review it and respond to it. So again, I just, and, and, and that way it'll be posted appropriately so that the members of the community can also have a chance to look at it before any decisions made. So that, that's all I have. Thank you very much Ms. Navarro KaVo.  
Speaker 15    01:53:48    You're welcome. Mr. Barlow,  
Speaker 1     01:53:50    Any other members of the board have questions?  
Speaker 3     01:53:53    Yes, Madam chair, Reverend Kinneally. One question on I would like to ask in regards to the footprint lighting for, for the complete site, would that all be standard in the, the particular type of lighting, not one section being this type of lighting and the other section being different?  
Speaker 5     01:54:17    I don't think we're there yet, so I'm not sure that we can answer it at this point. And definitely Ms. Cone would not be the one that would be able to answer that. That would actually be Mr. Olen back. But again, we're not there yet. That's something that we will come back with the lighting plan for site plan.  
Speaker 3     01:54:35    Thank you Chris.  
Speaker 15    01:54:36    I just  
Speaker 3     01:54:37    Concerns  
Speaker 15    01:54:39    The landscape buffering street lighting and street streetscape features are also something that's regulated in the Piscataway Township ordinance and we have to comply with that. So the underlying TC zone will refer you to the, the Township site plan ordinance. So to the extent that there are site plan standards in the ordinance governing lighting, we'll certainly have to comply with those.  
Speaker 3     01:55:03    That's, that's, that's my exact concern. Thank you.  
Speaker 15    01:55:06    You're welcome.  
Speaker 1     01:55:08    I'd like to open it up to the public at this time. Members of the public  
Speaker 7     01:55:13    Madam chair, this is Mika. If I can ask  
Speaker 1     01:55:16    A couple of questions. I'm sorry. Oh, go. I'm sorry. Ms ti go ahead. Yes,  
Speaker 7     01:55:20    Thank you. Hi, Ms Ca Kon, just a couple of follow up questions for board's understanding, if you could describe what is this GDP approval, the timing of it, you know, in terms of the extent of the number of years this approval is being requested for.  
Speaker 15    01:55:39    Certainly, and good evening to you as well. So the GDP what it does, the general development plan, it gives the applicant the right to seek extended investing. So the applicant can seek extended investing for a period of up to 20 years. And it does set force other governors for timing as well, such that if the, the applicant comes in for a phase or a section of the plan and then doesn't act on it for five years, then that will expire. So it does, it gives the, the applicant and the, because it deals with larger pieces of property and larger sites, it gives the applicant extend investing rights beyond which they would normally have if they went under a conventional site plan or subdivision ordinance.  
Speaker 7     01:56:20    Thank you. And in a similar way it gives the, the board as well as the Township also an overall picture because obviously with the type of development, again, MLUL permits a GDP plan for certain type of developments, you know, where, which have more than a hundred units and which have more than certain specific square footage. And the reason for that is it is over an extended period of time so that, you know, all the parties that are involved have a, a general overview as well as a phasing out sequence of how these, you know, developments may or may not occur. Is that a fair statement to say?  
Speaker 15    01:57:07    It is a fair statement. It gives a more global picture for a larger area and then the applicants can come in or the developer can come in for the specifics of the individual phases as the, as the whole general development plan is ultimately built out.  
Speaker 7     01:57:21    Thank you. So in the similar vein, as you heard, I think one of the items I had brought up is in our ordinance itself under section 21, 32 0.4, you know, it does talk about what an all GDP would have and yes, the residential units and the non-residential land users, but it also includes, shall describe the phasing together with any onsite and offsite improvements needed to support such phasing, I think Mr did testify that's required that would be provided to the board as well as, you know, a, a layout of the extended period of the phasing that's being proposed. Is that something I believe your team would be agreeable to providing that to the board to consider for this GDP?  
Speaker 15    01:58:21    Yes, we would be agreeable to provide the phasing of the project for the board.  
Speaker 7     01:58:26    Okay. Another item we've noted in the ordinance, which, you know, as Mr. Barlow went through the MLUL requirement of 40 55 D 45.2, there's a list of items that's, you know, may be included. And given the timing or or the extent of a GDP plan, the board can request for certain items to be provided. You did hear some of the local concerns and one of the items that was brought up was the fiscal impact report. Is that something that the, the team would be, we do have a, a, a preliminary report, but I believe that was based on a a, a earlier calculation. So this would be an update to kind of project the, the extended GDP phase or 20 years, you know, approval that's being sought for this proposed development. Is that something that the applicant would be willing to update and provide a this fiscal impact report?  
Speaker 5     01:59:36    Go ahead. Yeah, I mean I think that we would be able to provide it I think as, as a condition of the GDP approval. I think that we would agree to do that in terms of compliance, if that's something that the board would need.  
Speaker 7     01:59:50    I mean I  
Speaker 2     01:59:51    Think that's something they're gonna wanna see before, not as a condition. But  
Speaker 4     01:59:55    I agree Tom, I agree fully. I'd like to see that prior to the board making any decision on this.  
Speaker 7     02:00:02    Going back to, I think as Ms. Cochran said, one of the items is that the board has to see that the development will not have an unreasonable adverse impact and you know, traffic and the fiscal impact report seem to be the concern that the board does want to kind of, you know, sink their teeth on and know about.  
Speaker 5     02:00:26    All right, well, we'll, we'll we'll do our best to provide it. It might not obviously have the same type of specifics that a normal fiscal impact report would have because this is more of an overview. So yes.  
Speaker 7     02:00:39    Okay. The other thing we noted in the ordinance is, oddly enough the GDP does require a a signed plan, which is to be provided, you know, which basically says the GDP shall include a preliminary signage plan, which this is for, everyone's noting it's 2130 2.13 in the section of the ordinance. I'll pull it up, it's the item B. It says a preliminary signage plan shall be provided with any GDP application for the development, which covers the overall project identification, general signage themes and styling of the development. Is that something that the applicant would be willing to provide?  
Speaker 15    02:01:28    I would say yes. The plain language of section 21 32 13 of your ordinance requires that it shall be provided. So I would say that we would, we would be amenable  
Speaker 7     02:01:38    To providing that. Thank you. And then just as a general overall theme, I mean we did hear this is a general development plan, obviously the details of, you know, the design elements or what have you have not been provided, but you know, keeping in mind what the ordinance is and how it came about. I think the name says it all. It was about the town center of zone creation for Township of Piscataway. And I think very, if you le look at the ordinance, it's very, you know, broadly generally says they want to see a village style, a town style of architecture, you know, cohesion of pedestrian bike lanes and what have you. I, I do hear the testimony provided this is a general development plan, but in terms of what board is looking at and what the intent of the ordinances and what the approval or the impact of the approval on the number of years it'll have, is it fair to, for the board to kind of at least have, and I'm not saying, you know, detailed design drawings, but some kind of, you know, a theme or the, you know, architectural a facade even though conceptual is something that, you know, the applicant can provide for the board to at least understand what their town center zone is, you know, envisioned or  
Speaker 5     02:03:04    Look like. I, I can see why you're asking. I just wanted just the fact that is A GDP because we're not, it's not fully engineered. We don't have the architecturals and I can understand the concern and we have agreed to though, to come back with a full site plan at, in at one time. So that's why that's where you would have the architecturals, that's where the board would be able to see. So in other words, if we have the GDP approval, we know generally obviously how we're gonna proceed and then we would come in with the site plan, with the absolutely all the specifics that will be required that you're looking for. Unfortunately we can't move for site plan approval without getting the GDP approval and bef it's one of those chicken and the egg.  
Speaker 7     02:03:55    Understood. But just, you know, as everybody's contemplating and thinking of it, one thing of the GDP is, you know, when anytime any change to A GDP is required, and this is for your benefit as well as the Township, yes. If it is considered substantial, then you have to come back to amend the GDP of course. So, you know, if, if the theme as the name goes, the general development plan is provided for the board and completely understanding that this is not something, you know, we are not going to hold you to, hey, your building looked and I'm just generally stating, you know, your building looked to this many with a pink variation facade with a blue first floor. I don't think the Township is intending to hold you to that, but at least in terms of concept, knowing what their village center is going to look like is I think a fair ask of them.  
Speaker 5     02:04:53    Understood. I understand. And what we can try to, you know, do our best with that and, and see what we can provide and just to consider the fact that the build out, you know, we're, we're waiting for, we're gonna be waiting for a lot of final approvals, so to say, from other agencies and whatnot. And so part of that takes time and as we all know, architecturally speaking, tastes change.  
Speaker 15    02:05:21    Right. And now we can, you know, as you just said, you don't wanna be in, we don't wanna be in a situation where we have a change from what the GDP was approved and then we have to come back to, you know, to the board to seek an approval on an architectural change when there's nothing in your ordinance or the MLUL, you know, to require architectural at the GDP stage. I think when we come in for site plan approval, we'll have no choice but to provide those very detailed drawings for the board to review at that time. But it's difficult to do that at a, at the high level GDP phase, which is likely why it's not required or even listed as one of the optional elements in the MLUL.  
Speaker 7     02:06:01    Yeah, understood. And I'm not gonna, you know, kind of belabor the point, but you know, going back to the findings of the 40 55 D again, the board is contemplating how this is, how this development over the number of years of, I believe 20 years was what was mentioned, is going to have the impact not only on the site itself, on surrounding area and protect the interests of the public, of the residents and finally the occupants of this village center. So, you know, in terms of giving an overall broad picture to the board, very well, knowing it's a general development plan, which the board is, 'cause right now we just have, you know, we do have placement of buildings, but there is no envision of what this village center is going to look at. So I that's, that's all I'll bring up and I think I'll keep quiet at this. Let board continue. Thank you.  
Speaker 5     02:07:07    Thank you.  
Speaker 1     02:07:09    Are there any other questions from the board at this time? Hearing none, I'd like to open it to the public if anyone in the public has questions of this present witness. Ms. Navarro Cone, would you please indicate it by raising your hand on your computer?  
Speaker 15    02:07:31    No. One Madam chair.  
Speaker 10    02:07:33    Sorry, Madam chair. I was already in the system. I know I can't raise my hands. Can I ask? Okay. Mr. B. Mr. Okay, Mr. B thank you.  
Speaker 2     02:07:43    You haven't moved right? You still  
Speaker 10    02:07:45    Moved? I'm you all day and thank you sir. Alrighty. This is regarding, you're  
Speaker 2     02:07:50    Still under oath.  
Speaker 10    02:07:51    Thank you sir. Yeah, I am. This is regarding 21, 32 15 site plan and building design section I believe is C and then it's one B. This is regarding the leads lead systems. I didn't hear any mention of any green building designs or what are you planning because the current buildings over there is definitely way too old and I was actually working in, in one of those buildings and it is So what are, what are your plans? So when, when will you submit something on the lead? Leads? Leads for those, for the green buildings, please?  
Speaker 5     02:08:28    Oh, oh, you talking about the the office buildings, sir? Yeah.  
Speaker 10    02:08:33    Yes ma'am.  
Speaker 5     02:08:35    That's not part of this application. It's not part of the GDP actually it's not, it's not the same block and locks we're talking about.  
Speaker 10    02:08:45    What about the, the retail space? You said about, you know, there'll be, you know, all those retail spaces you'll be building up, right? Or you'll be reusing from those existing buildings,  
Speaker 5     02:08:57    Correct? We'll be building up the retail cor Oh sorry. If you're speaking of other buildings and not just the office buildings that are currently there. I gotcha. Right. But that is definitely handled at site plan and it's in the ordinance itself in terms of green design. There's actually a section for it of what's required. And you know, we're, we're going to comply with everything with regard to the ordinances that Piscataway has with regard to the psych plan standards that are set forth therein.  
Speaker 10    02:09:29    Okay. So another question was, I don't know, this was kind of brought up before. I don't, is it reverend that, that asked the question? Sorry, I'm, I'm new to this, but sorry. You're good,  
Speaker 5     02:09:40    You're good.  
Speaker 10    02:09:41    Okay, thank you. So this is regarding the, the green, the, sorry, the, the charging stations. So what I've noticed is everybody, you know, is charging in YMCA now they only have like 10, 12 spots. So, you know, I, I think with this development, like we did for another, another building that they approved in January, they asked for more charging stations. So we would like, you know, if it's a town center, people are gonna come in here, people are going to put their vehicles to charge over here. What is the, a impact on the utilities? B is gonna be solar C how many spots are going to be there? I think we need to see that in some, some way, shape or form. In, in your, you know, other apps, site plan applications. Is that way you wanna do it?  
Speaker 15    02:10:26    Yes. That will be shown on our site plan. So we will have to comply with the state statute for the provision of EVs. Mr or Mayor, Wahler made his position very clear on, on how he feels about the EVs tonight. So I'm sure when we are developing our site plans, we will take that under consideration when we come back and present our, our site plans to the board and they will, I would imagine, comply with both the state statute as well as the direction and, and comments we hear from the board.  
Speaker 10    02:10:57    Yeah, so I think minimum is something that the state requires, but I think we should try to do something more for Pisca, you know, residents of these buildings is not to just put 12 of them or 15 of them, but if you can put 30 of them or 50 of them, that'll be more useful. Thank you.  
Speaker 15    02:11:13    Understood. You're welcome.  
Speaker 1     02:11:19    Is it, does anyone in the public have any questions for this witness?  
Speaker 15    02:11:27    No, no one else. Madam chair.  
Speaker 1     02:11:30    Alright then we'll close it to the public.  
Speaker 15    02:11:33    Thank  
Speaker 1     02:11:33    You.  
Speaker 5     02:11:34    Thank you.  
Speaker 1     02:11:37    I guess you can give up your sum, Ms. Elgar, you can give a summary if you have no other witnesses.  
Speaker 5     02:11:43    I do not have any other witnesses and I appreciate everybody's time. Hopefully, you know, the board will consider the fact that this is, again, very preliminary. It's a GDP, it's before we've actually done the engineering and that we do plan to comply with every single one of the ordinances. If, and just as Ms. Apti said that we will come back if we need to revise anything. I, I think that just to get the process moving along just because we've, you know, we're looking to build this inclusionary development and build the affordable housing units. We are looking just to at least get the GDP approved at this point so that we can move forward and proceed with the rest of the, the development and we'll be happy to provide additional information if necessary throughout the process.  
Speaker 1     02:12:43    Do you have any other witnesses that you need to call in the future or before you can complete your work for the GDP?  
Speaker 5     02:12:52    Not for the GDP itself, no. Probably for the site plan we will be bringing more witnesses for sure.  
Speaker 2     02:13:00    Ma Madam chair, what I would suggest is, I think based on the questions that Ms. Apti raised, that I raised, that Ms. Corcoran raised and while they, they have complied with what's required, I think there's a lot of items that the board and the residents had that certainly were contemplated in the statute. And I don't wanna speak for Ms. Corcoran or, or any of the other staff, but I don't think we have a complete picture at this point. And I think there's more information that may be required.  
Speaker 4     02:13:39    And, and Madam chair, if I may, this the staff really would like an opportunity to review Ms. Cone's report. We would like to issue a letter indicating those items in of 45.2 of the MLUL that the Township would like to see before any decisions made by this board. I think there's a lot of missing information here before we can go forward.  
Speaker 1     02:13:59    Do we have a target date?  
Speaker 2     02:14:03    Well, from a, from a scheduling standpoint, March is filled up. So it would be the April 10th.  
Speaker 0     02:14:10    Yeah,  
Speaker 2     02:14:12    I'm sorry. April 10th.  
Speaker 1     02:14:12    April 10th.  
Speaker 2     02:14:13    April 10th meeting. And actually  
Speaker 1     02:14:15    So we can re-list, re-list this on April the 10th for a review.  
Speaker 2     02:14:19    Absolutely  
Speaker 1     02:14:19    Any supplementary information.  
Speaker 2     02:14:21    And I think that gives the applicant so they don't not rush, gives them plenty of time to pro provide the information that, that again, the residents have raised valid concerns. This professional staff has raised concerns and again this board is tasked with finding that the proposed plan development will not have an unreasonably adverse impact upon the area in which it's proposed to be established. So I, I think that that information that's come up over the course of almost three hours now or two and a half hours certainly seems to make sense and as Ms. Corcoran calls up along, I've been doing it the whole meeting. That's why I keep having to mute, which I'm with you right now.  
Speaker 1     02:15:13    Oh no, there you go.  
Speaker 2     02:15:14    Yeah, I started it.  
Speaker 1     02:15:16    Ms. Elgar, is there reason  
Speaker 2     02:15:18    Number one that the fact that the meeting's virtual is probably safer for all of us because nobody would wanna be near Dawn or I as we coughed up, up, up. So, so I guess is Ms. Corcoran, are you making a motion to carry it to the April 10th meeting?  
Speaker 4     02:15:35    I am Tom,  
Speaker 0     02:15:38    Mr. Oba raising his hand.  
Speaker 1     02:15:41    Mr. Beck?  
Speaker 6     02:15:43    Yeah. Yeah. Quickly just, I apologize, I just wanna make sure I'm clear through my notes here. Not saying we're doing everything, we're not saying anything. I just wanna make sure that what information the board is looking for so I can speak to ownership about which ones we will do or won't do. I mean obviously some things are are statutory we have to do, but I'm just gonna rattle off what I have in my notes, what the board's looking for. So  
Speaker 2     02:16:05    Mr. aback Yes. I think for your own wellbeing, I think Ms. Corcoran indicated she'd like the staff to issue a letter saying we'd like to see BBA bba, BBA B and then you'd have it in writing and then you could take that back. Okay.  
Speaker 6     02:16:22    I apologize. That's thought Dawn wanted to wait additional information before she was gonna write  
Speaker 1     02:16:29    And I think she wants to note her concern  
Speaker 4     02:16:32    Iran and then we'd like to have an opportunity to review that information. But as Tom said, I think since we're here in February and you're not coming back till April, that should give us enough time to again issue our report and then to review the information that comes in between now and then.  
Speaker 5     02:16:47    That's fine. Does it make sense for you to just at least give us a letter in terms of what other information you would be looking for and then we can submit and then you can do a report? Absolutely. If you know what I'm saying. So this way  
Speaker 6     02:17:00    That that's what I was trying to get at. Thank you.  
Speaker 1     02:17:03    Okay. For now it's listed for April the 10th, then we'll carry this until April 10th. And if it needs, if time needs to be had, we will adjourn it further if needed.  
Speaker 2     02:17:13    Ms. Smith, I, I know there was a motion by Ms. Corcoran. I don't know if there was a second and  
Speaker 1     02:17:18    A vote. Okay, we a motion? Do we have a second for that proposal?  
Speaker 0     02:17:22    Reverend Kinneally? I second it.  
Speaker 1     02:17:25    Roll call please.  
Speaker 0     02:17:30    Mayor? Wahler? Yes. Councilwoman. Cahill. Did we lose Gabby? Ms. Corcoran?  
Speaker 4     02:17:40    Yes.  
Speaker 0     02:17:41    Reverend Kinneally? Yes. Mr. Atkins? Yes. Mr. Foster?  
Speaker 16    02:17:48    Yes.  
Speaker 0     02:17:49    Mr. Ahmed? Yes. And Madam chair?  
Speaker 1     02:17:52    Yes. Okay then that's how we'll do that. Thank  
Speaker 6     02:17:57    You everybody.  
Speaker 5     02:17:58    Thank you. Take care. And happy Valentine's Day.  
Speaker 0     02:18:03    Yes.  
Speaker 1     02:18:03    What's left of it? Enjoy. Good evening  
Speaker 6     02:18:07    And Dawn feel better.  
Speaker 1     02:18:09    Thank you very much. You and Tom.  
Speaker 5     02:18:12    Right? Take care everybody. Thank you everyone.  
Speaker 16    02:18:15    Enjoy yourself Brian. Bye-Bye.  
Speaker 1     02:18:20    Thank you.  
Speaker 0     02:18:23    Yeah. motion to adjourn. Madam chair. Did we lose her?  
Speaker 2     02:18:28    Dawn, you wanna make a motion to  
Speaker 1     02:18:30    Adjourn?  
Speaker 0     02:18:31    I think everybody  
Speaker 1     02:18:33    I  
Speaker 0     02:18:34    Second. All in favor? Aye. There we go. Thanks everyone. Oh, that was funny, Dawn. All right, have a good night everyone. Happy Valenti. Nice day night. Happy. Good care. Bye Alex. Bye-Bye.